D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

What is it called when you go looking to find something extreme like being a nazi or an anti-feminist or accusing them of calling someone brain damaged?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Eric V]

It doesn't seem you read the thread through...if you had, you would have seen @Hussar s point that if it really is all about opinion, then none of it matters, at least when discussing "samey-ness." He has several posts where he makes this point, and quite well.

Instead, it's discussing if the edition has a particular quality, and then, if it has such a quality that is distinctive in a way that makes it substantially different or worse than other editions. If the term is simply a placeholder for "that which I like/dislike" then there's no discussion to be had; just statements of opinion, which go nowhere.

Several people in the thread, including people who didn't like 4e, tried to engage with the former idea though. And it's interesting to examine it and see if 2 editions are factually similar in main ways, but feel different, then what is the aspect that makes them feel different. This is where people tried to focus on presentation, but were told, no, it's not the presentation. So, then what is it?

No one is telling anyone else what they should think. I am going to point out, though, that if one criticizes A for trait Z, and B also has trait Z but that gets overlooked, that that is inconsistent criticism. Doesn't mean A is great, but it is a hint that whatever is off with A has to do with something other than trait Z. Doesn't change one's opinion on the game, but it does, potentially, debunk an argument about why the game sucks.

Hopefully that's clearer.

The rest of your post ("Grand project," "amazing and awesome power," etc.) is just childish nonsense.

 

[Imaro]

This, right here, is probably the core of the disagreement. Imaro says that multiple classes having the same power doesn't make the game samey. So, presumably, the fact that every 5e class heals the same (cure wounds spell) or attacks the same doesn't make the game samey. These things ARE the same, so, they get removed from the equation.

That's not what I said. We are discussing whether powers are samey... not classes, right? I wouldn't consider a single power shared by multiple classes to be samey with itself., it doesn't make sense it's a single power (to use 4e terms) shared across classes... does it make classes more samey, maybe but that wasn't what I've been discussing. But yeah you go ahead and keep putting words in my mouth. SO you can draw a false conclusion and score internet brownie points.

To me, this just speaks to perception. The difference between 4e and 5e, is that 4e would actually try to differentiate these effects, somewhat and to varying degrees. So, sure, you get a Howl Warlock power as a 9th level encounter that looks a lot like a 1st level wizard at will Thunderwave. And, again, with thousands of powers spread over 40 classes, there's going to be overlap. That's unavoidable.

So you do at least in some partial way get the actual point

So, presumably, had 4e simply had a pool of powers shared across classes with a handful of class specific powers, then @Imaro would no longer find it samey.

Can you go back and find exactly where I said 4e as a game, or even 4e classes are samey? I'll wait because I know you can't. I'm sorry you've totally missed my point in your exuberance to win the argument but let me reiterate it for you and see if you can instead address what I'm saying as opposed to arguing with yourself...

I'm talking about powers specifically... not classes, not the game as a whole, not rituals just powers. If the Ranger in 4e had twin strike and the Fighter in 4e had the exact same power...would I claim this example of powers were samey... no, they're one power they aren't two instances of different powers that feel the same... Instead we got the Ranger with Twin Strike and the Tempest Fighter with whatever dual strike power he uses and since They are billed as and listed as totally different powers but only have a minor difference at best yes the powers feel samey... it's pretty simple logic.

Which, to me, rolls it right back around to presentation. You could argue, I think, that 5e is more efficient in its presentation because it doesn't reprint similar or same powers across different classes. You don't have a different Cure Wounds spell for each class. You have one Cure Wounds spell that works the same for all classes. You don't have a grab+attack power for a bunch of different classes, you have one grab+attack power that works identically for all classes that have extra attack.

Well when you're the one constructing the argument you want to address as well as the counter argument... 99.9% of the time it's going to support your conclusion, just saying.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Garthanos]

What is it called when you go looking to find something extreme like being a nazi or an anti-feminist or accusing them of calling someone brain damaged?

Hyperbolic is one word

 

[Imaro]

If they had actually been the same, they would have been less samey!

How can something be samey with itself?

 

[Garthanos]

"Although people may think cognitive dissonance is a bad thing, it actually helps to keep us mentally healthy and happy. It may make us feel satisfied with our choices—or at least lets us justify them—especially when they cannot be easily reversed. Resolving dissonance may help prevent us from making bad choices or motivate us to make good ones. This desire to be at peace with our decisions might be just the thing to inspire us to go for that run after all. "

What Happens to the Brain During Cognitive Dissonance?

—Thea Buckley,India

www.scientificamerican.com

scientific american article about the broader subject of cognitive dissonance not exclusive to those suffering psychosis

 

[Garthanos]

Yup I am so certain all those religous students were brain damaged in that study I just read and psychosis and lol just because its problematic in those who have psychosis does not mean it is the cause.

https://urj.ucf.edu/docs/gaulden.pdf

Nifty keen huh.

 

[Garthanos]

No it does not imply pathology just a bit of internal shucking and jiving.