Are reviewers evil?

[pennywiz]

I stated no such thing. I said I think that he thinks reviewers have sinister intent. Difference.

Granted. I misread that. Fortunately everything else that has been written is easy for others to read and my points are all valid and available to people. You still need to apologize to salvage some professionalism regarding your behavior for starting this thread, and the way in which you started it.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Saddam Hussein is inherently evil.

Just like Hitler and the Nazis.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

There... If this thread's going down, I'm going down with it!

 

[pennywiz]

(edited)

Hopefully moderators will recognise that editing your post is better than closing the thread. I hope trying to get the thread closed is not your intention.

 

[pennywiz]

There... If this thread's going down, I'm going down with it!

There's a perfectly legitimate discussion going on in this thread. Trying to get it closed is rude. I have faith in EN World moderators to not fall for such tactics.

 

[Oni]

Pennywiz I have to wonder if your reading the same article as everyone else here. Jim Ward very strongly suggest in his article that poor reviews of his companies products do not stem from the reviewer making mistakes, but rather knowingly not giving the material its due, or worse yet simply because they enjoy giving out bad reviews his products. In the very opening paragraph of his article he had this to say:

"As I've talked to reviewers about bad reviews I'm often amazed at their enthusiasm for presenting nothing but negative material. One website in particular loves to present low Fast Forward ratings and they freely admit they never play our products and haven't even read the entire product they reviewed."

Later on he goes on to say:

"My head of sales has a very amusing saying that goes to this idea: 'How many game critics does it take to change a light bulb. 0, none of them have ever really experienced the process of changing a light bulb, but they have heard from friends that it's nasty so they don't like to do it either.' "

and then :

"All right, this is a bit of my "Polly Anna" background coming through. Companies spend thousands of dollars to make a product. Along comes a reviewer who prints out a review just to get their words in print. "

and in his closing:

"All too often, a reviewer is caught up on their own cynicism to the detriment of their review."

Given the aspersions Mr. Ward cast on the motivations of some reviewers I think that Psions thread title is dead on the mark. And dress it up anyway you want, it wouldn't change my views on the subject.

I don't know how it is that you believe that you can sit there and demand that Psion apologize for casting aspersions on someone's character when you've done nothing but question his motives. Personally I think it takes a lot of gall to jump in as a third party and demand that one side apologize being as you are not the slighted party (be that slight real or imagined) [and if you were then you ought to just come out and say it and not beat around the bush, because you couldn't get much lower than that].


[edit: currently on the run from the grammar and spelling police.]

 

[Larry Fitz]

Psion,

Do you get paid for your reviews? If not, don't sweat the "unprofessional" label. If you do, well it's probably not by Pennywiz, so again, don't sweat it.

Jim Ward questioned the integrity and professionalism of reviewers and wrote that bad reveiws cost him money. He quoted Psion without attributing the quote (if I read this thread correctly). Jim may have felt he was doing Psion a favor by not singling him out by name. Psion sought public reaction and invited debate on the topic. If anything he is being a little too fair by indulging Penny in this tete-a-tete long after it can possibly be productive. By and large "bad" reviews in the D20 commmunity are rare, most products (the vast majority) get at least an average rating. So if Jim feels he's getting bad reviews he should address it in his content, not an editorial. If he feels he's getting unfair reviews he should instruct his distributor to not send review copies to those who are giving him unfair reviews. Yes that may give him less exposure than other companies, but if he believes he's avoiding unfair bad reviews, and unfair bad reviews cost him money, then that is the tact he should take.


If memory serves Psion did express some critical views on a product I contributed to, but in his review he explained that certain elements were a pet peeve of his. He still scored it as he saw it, but he did not do so unilaterally. Despite the large size of some of our products, he certainly seemed to be fully informed as to their content, that is he did not "skim" our books. I much prefer honest critical thought to fan-rave reviews. As someone else pointed out, a non critical review isn't a review, it's advertising.

Finally, it's probably time for both of you to go to neutral corners now. You aren't establishing anything new and neither one of you is coming any closer to the other's point of view.

 

[pennywiz]

Pennywiz I have to wonder if your reading the same article as everyone else here. Jim Ward very strongly suggest in his article that poor reviews of his companies products do not stem from the reviewer making mistakes, but rather knowingly not giving the material its due, or worse yet simply because they enjoy giving out bad reviews his products. In the very opening paragraph of his article he had this to say:

"As I've talked to reviewers about bad reviews I'm often amazed at their enthusiasm for presenting nothing but negative material. One website in particular loves to present low Fast Forward ratings and they freely admit they never play our products and haven't even read the entire product they reviewed."

Later on he goes on to say:

"My head of sales has a very amusing saying that goes to this idea: 'How many game critics does it take to change a light bulb. 0, none of them have ever really experienced the process of changing a light bulb, but they have heard from friends that it's nasty so they don't like to do it either.' "

and then :

"All right, this is a bit of my "Polly Anna" background coming through. Companies spend thousands of dollars to make a product. Along comes a reviewer who prints out a review just to get their words in print. "

and in his closing:

"All too often, a reviewer is caught up on their own cynicism to the detriment of their review."

Given the dispersions Mr. Ward cast on the motivations of some reviewers I think that Psions thread title is dead on the mark. And dress it up anyway you want, it wouldn't change my views on the subject.

I don't know how it is that you believe that you can sit there and demand that Psion apologize for casting dispersions on someone's character when you've done nothing but question his motives. Personally I think it takes a lot of gall to jump in as a third party and demand that one side apologize being as you are not the slighted party (be that slight real or imagined) [and if you were then you ought to just come out and say it and not beat around the bush, because you couldn't get much lower than that].

Aspersions

This thread is full of third party opinions, none more or less valid than my own.

His motives aside, the result of what Psion has done as a professional reviewer is put words in the mouth of a publisher, when other words would have been just as useful to his summary yet not be unprofession in bahavior. Say what you will, but these are facts and are there to be read. If Jim ward had come here and opened a thread on the same subject, in the same manner, my suggestion that an apology is warranted would be the same and just as valid.

 

[rounser]

Given the dispersions Mr. Ward cast on the motivations of some reviewers I think that Psions thread title is dead on the mark. And dress it up anyway you want, it wouldn't change my views on the subject.

Oni, I suspect you're skirting the very heights of double standards. Would you raise an eyebrow to see such snarkiness in an actual review? Answer honestly; in my case, nope. You're holding the publisher to a higher standard of professionalism. Of course. We all do. You're free not to change your views, but at least recognise your bias.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

There's a perfectly legitimate discussion going on in this thread. Trying to get it closed is rude. I have faith in EN World moderators to not fall for such tactics.

Really? Seemed to degenerate into sniping and backbiting about 6 posts ago, if you ask me.

I think you can rest assured that my comment wasn't so overtly political that it's going to get the thread closed. You're doing fine on your own.

I mean really... Nazis? I just want to be first on record with Godwin's Law. If I had any serious intention of accelerating your train wreck I can do better than that.

Wulf