Are Spells Balanced by Level?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Spells are not only balanced by spell level, but also by caster level. Look at the bards spell list. Charm Person/Monster do have lower spell levels than their wizard/cleric(?) equivalent (I believe 2 levels lower for the Monster version), but they still have the same caster level.
The point at where a spell is available seems also to be an important part.

 

[Al]

Dinkeldog: Anything that ends in image? Agreed, with one exception: Mirror Image. Project Image is quite useful, but not given its level.

Sleep is an extremely potent spell. Make a 1st level enchanter with Greater Spell Focus and 18 Int and you're throwing DC19 instant take-out spells. Just have the party minions delay until after you and coup de grace the sleeping opponents.

I'd pretty much agree with all of the points here, but how about high-level spells which are too weak?
Sympathy/Antipathy (compare with Prismatic Wall)
Repulsion?
Those immediately spring to mind, but there are probably many many more.

 

[Acmite]

Bringing us back to D&D's odd notion of spell scaling -- some scale quite strongly (Magic Missile, Fireball), while others scale almost negatively (e.g. Sleep, with its max HD limit).

Would it ruin the game to have Magic Missile I through IX? Fireball I through IX? What if we considered each spell "ladder" just one spell known?

The two major (negative) ramifications I see of doing this would be: 1. Screws Sorcerors who want to go the battel-mage route but also want a few utility spells. They will have to spend all their known spells on improved versions of spells they likely already took to survive the low levels
2. It screws wizards who don't have access to Boccob's Blessed Book or the like, due to insanely high scribing costs.

My 2 copper ingots.

 

[Aven]

Would it ruin the game to have Magic Missile I through IX? Fireball I through IX? What if we considered each spell "ladder" just one spell known?

It might not ruin the game, but it would put a serious hurting on the sorcerer class, with their already-limited spell selection.

 

[Acmite]

It might not ruin the game, but it would put a serious hurting on the sorcerer class, with their already-limited spell selection.

Ummm...didn't I just say that?

 

[Petrosian]

Spells are balanced by CLASS, not by level.

Hold person is a second level cleric spell but a third level mage spell.

 

[Bozo]

broken at that level

Level 1-sleep (you failed you save, your low level, your dead)

Level 2-rope trick (get out of jail free for the whole party)

Level 3-Haste (and I get to cast another spell this round!)
Blindsight (by the way I can see you diplaced / mirror imaged / invisable / hiding thief and I know that gig monster ios just a major illusion (with out even opening my eyes ) someone please tell me what level true seeing is and then tell me this spell is not better.....

Level 4-Polymorph Other (this is just wrong)

Level 5-Teleport (how do we get to the bottom level of the dungeon?)

Level 6-mass haste (I get another spell and oh yeah all my friends get to kick you ass twice over and all or our armor classes are a lot better)

Level 7-Force Cage(I don't care if your 50th level)

 

[Florin]

mmadsen, I'd reccommend looking at the Wheel of Time magic system. There is one fireball spell, but you have a couple options as to what level you cast it at and how much damage it does. So, a 3rd-level fireball would do less damage than a 5th-level fireball, given the same caster level.

All the spells work this way, even the healing spells. Healing is a 1st through 9th (I think) spell, and each level does a different amount of d8 + caster level hit points of healing. However, you only have to learn the Healing spell once to get access to all the levels of it.

 

[mmadsen]

I'm a bit confused at how two separate people responded to my suggestion:

Would it ruin the game to have Magic Missile I through IX? Fireball I through IX? What if we considered each spell "ladder" just one spell known?

That last sentence must not have been clear. What if knowing "Magic Missile" actually meant that you automatically knew Magic Missile I through Magic Missile IX? Or that knowing "Fireball" meant you knew Fireball I through Fireball IX?

Thus, instead of scaling with caster level but remaining at the same spell level, the spells cost a spell slot at whatever level matched their power -- but they wouldn't have to be separate spells eating into a Ssorcerer's limited spell selection or a Wizard's spell-scribing budget.

 

[mmadsen]

Re: broken at that level

Level 4-Polymorph Other (this is just wrong)

As zerovoid pointed out, "Its a buffing spell, a transportation spell, a disguise spell, and and instant death spell all in one."

No one's responded to my suggestion though:

No one of those effects is all that powerful, but it certainly has many uses. Perhaps it should be multiple spells? If you can only turn people into toads, it's fine for "instant death". If you can only turn them into raging bulls, it's much more of a "buffing" spell.

What if each animal is a separate spell known?