Are tumble Checks too easy?

[Hypersmurf]

As for the S&S rules ... puh-lease! What fighter type is going to have a reflex save high enough, even at twentieth lvel (let alone 10th), to meet a DC of 36 ... ?!?

There's always Monte Cook's suggested opposed Tumble roll - Tumble vs Opposed Attack Roll.

(If the attack roll beats the Tumble check, it is not used as the attack roll for the AoO; it only allows the opponent to make an AoO. If he elects to take it, he makes a separate roll for the actual attack.)

This has the plus side that more dangerous opponents are more dangerous to tumble past, but the minus that in most cases, Strength makes more of a difference to being able to AoO a tumbler than Dexterity or Reflexes.

You could always follow the new Feint vs Sense Motive + BAB model, and make it Tumble vs Reflex + BAB...

-Hyp.

 

[Camarath]

This would be a house rule but you could add the enemy’s BAB to the Tumble Check DC when attempting to avoid an AoO.

 

[Pax]

You could always follow the new Feint vs Sense Motive + BAB model, and make it Tumble vs Reflex + BAB...

-Hyp.

Now, that I could live with.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now, that I could live with.

It's actually one I never considered before (and I've considered a few ) - because last time I looked at this was before 3.5 came out with the Feint mechanic.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Well, since he can tumble with relative impunity, he can pretty much be assured of gtting flanking, which means, sneak attack.

With a 30' base speed, he can move a maximum of 5 squares if he tumbles for one square. This is not "relative impunity", and in fact I'd say that in a lot of cases, it's a pretty big restriction on how much use you can get out of it. Furthermore, if you're tumbling around the battlefield, chances are you're not going to be standing still long enough to get off a full attack.

No, it's not the rogue who's going to be tumbling with relative impunity. It's the monk, with 90' speed at the top end. Not that most big monsters are likely to care about the flurry o' misses guy, even in 3.5E.

 

[Darklone]

Let them tumble. The Fighter will ready an attack and stomp them into the ground after tripping them down.

 

[Pax]

Let them tumble. The Fighter will ready an attack and stomp them into the ground after tripping them down.

No skill should ever, without risk or cost, trump entire chains of feats and whole categories of character or monster types. For example, "I have reach from being Large, combat reflexes, and Large and In Charge" ...

Tumble does.

That is a problem.

 

[Darklone]

Pax, look at it from the other side. Without Tumble, these featchains would be overpowering.

 

[Celtavian]

re

No skill should ever, without risk or cost, trump entire chains of feats and whole categories of character or monster types. For example, "I have reach from being Large, combat reflexes, and Large and In Charge" ...

Tumble does.

That is a problem.

I don't see it as a problem. Most of the classes that have Tumble and are able to use it don't have high AC's or Base Attacks. If they had to endure AOO's, they would be worn down even faster.

At first I thought Tumbling was far too easy myself. I now find that the monsters in this game are very tough. The only classes that have Tumble are the Rogue, Monk and Bard, and they are rather weak combat classes often with low AC's and low hit points. The only arguable class is the Monk, and Sneak Attack is difficult to use given that you are unable to use it against creatures whose vitals are out of reach aka many huge monsters and the like.

Really think about who uses Tumbling most often in the game. Are they really gaining too much of an advantage given their AC, hit points, attack capabilities, and other such things. The big heavily armored tank fighter is not going to be tumbling, neither most likely is your mage or cleric. Save for a few prestige classes, Tumbling is a rather rare class skill with limited use.

 

[Eccles]

Wat's most worrying to me is that the rules state pretty clearly that the DC to tumble past a 1st level wizard (which should be pretty easy) is exactly the same as the DC to tumble past Llolth.

Which is worrying.

My House Rule is to make the DC 10 + Ref save, much as suggested above.

This actually makes it a lot easier to tumble past things at high level, and a monk who keeps maxxing Tumble is likely to be OK.

But he's hardly ever going to tumble past Llolth...