Are we fair to WotC?

[Dannager]

I think you will find on reread that I distinguished Trivial Pursuit from other card games and said that the game play might not be greatly altered by the use of the electronic medium,

That's my point. Gameplay is not fundamentally altered merely by making a portion of it digital. Whether the gameplay is altered depends on how that digital implementation impacts the play of the game.

Bringing this back to what we've been discussing, the only change between having rulebooks at the table and having tablets with rulebooks on them at the table is that there's suddenly a lot more room on the table for your bag of Funyuns. Acting like introducing digital rules references to the game table is fundamentally disruptive to what it means to play D&D is really overblowing things. D&D is not magically turned into a computer game by sticking the PHB on a Kindle.

 

[Cadence]

I don't believe that it does. I have done it both ways. Extensively. The only difference is that I spend less time thumbing through books trying to find the right page.

Apparently e-reading vs. book reading does have some differences on average though... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=reading-paper-screens

Humans created computers. We didn't have them handed down from on high, or left behind by an alien race. We created them so that we could use them.

That humans created something for a particular use surely doesn't imply that it is beneficial to use (LSD, BPA, Agent Orange). Perhaps more relevantly: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/technology/25brain.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Of course that we didn't evolve with something doesn't mean it is harmful to use either.

A tablet with my entire book collection on it is in no way more distracting than having to pass piles of books around the table. This is nonsense.

For someone with your will-power. Examining just about any bar, party, restaurant, or large college lecture hall, the very act of having the electronic device handy seems to distract multitudes of people from just about anything. (Not entirely apropos, doodling might be undistracting http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1882127,00.html ).

The expectation is that they would still be doing it, because you are paying them on an ongoing basis.

Expecting most corporations to provide something in perpetuity seems a bit naive... even when it's something like a pension plan that should be.

 

[Wicht]

That's my point. Gameplay is not fundamentally altered merely by making a portion of it digital. Whether the gameplay is altered depends on how that digital implementation impacts the play of the game.

Bringing this back to what we've been discussing, the only change between having rulebooks at the table and having tablets with rulebooks on them at the table is that there's suddenly a lot more room on the table for your bag of Funyuns. Acting like introducing digital rules references to the game table is fundamentally disruptive to what it means to play D&D is really overblowing things. D&D is not magically turned into a computer game by sticking the PHB on a Kindle.

While DnD does not become a computer game by the use of electronic medium to convey the rules, the interaction with the rules is different and for some of us, there is a preference (completely opinion based and subject to difference of opinion) that the books are to be preferred.

Depending on group, I could see an argument for gameplay interaction being different too, as one might not be sure if Bob is reading rules, surfing facebook, or texting his wife. I've had that actually happen at Con games where I was not sure what a player was doing, but mostly just ignored it as a minor irritation.

 

[Dannager]

Expecting most corporations to provide something in perpetuity seems a bit naive... even when its something like a pension plan.

It's not naive when you're paying them for it. If they stop providing something, you stop subscribing. That's a pretty damn good incentive to keep providing it, at least until you have a replacement. And we're not talking about perpetuity. Just for the length of your subscription.

 

[Cadence]

It's not naive when you're paying them for it. If they stop providing something, you stop subscribing. That's a pretty damn good incentive to keep providing it, at least until you have a replacement. And we're not talking about perpetuity. Just for the length of your subscription.

I read that part of his post as referring to getting access to something like the rule book forever, without having to keep paying for a subscription to have access. Could be lack of sleep on my part.

 

[Dannager]

I read that part of his post as referring to getting access to something like the rule book forever, without having to keep paying for a subscription to have access. Could be lack of sleep on my part.

He may have been, but I stipulated that, for the sake of argument, we were assuming that in the event that the subscription service is discontinued, you would still be able to get a physical copy of the book. The question is whether it's worthwhile to participate in the subscription service while it is active.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Apparently e-reading vs. book reading does have some differences on average though... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=reading-paper-screens

I didn't feel like finding that reference, but yes, computer screens are different. It's also important that accessing a computer throws a variety of other stimuli at you; including possibly email, ads, random computer errors. It's just more distracting than a book because there's more stuff to distract you.

For someone with your will-power. Examining just about any bar, party, restaurant, or large college lecture hall, the very act of having the electronic device handy seems to distract multitudes of people from just about anything.

No kidding.

 

[Imaro]

That's my point. Gameplay is not fundamentally altered merely by making a portion of it digital. Whether the gameplay is altered depends on how that digital implementation impacts the play of the game.

This is wrong... Quick question... is the Come and Get It power from 4e in the PHB the same as the one in the CB? No. Does this change the gameplay... yes. The thing is there are people who prefer the original and there are people who prefer it after the errata... if there were no books everyone would have to accept the errata'd version

He may have been, but I stipulated that, for the sake of argument, we were assuming that in the event that the subscription service is discontinued, you would still be able to get a physical copy of the book. The question is whether it's worthwhile to participate in the subscription service while it is active.

What if I want my rpg static? In your model I have no say so over the errata and/or revision of the rules that I want to use, it will be forced upon me since I don't have a physical copy of the original rules and without that incentive there will probably be no need to have errata or revision sheets... as an example, there are people (admittedly rare) who prefer 3.0 to 3.5... but in your model they wouldn't have been able to stay with the 3.0 rules since the rule set is continuously evolving and you can only purchase it if the subscription model is ended.

 

[Dannager]

What if I want my rpg static?

Then I fear you're in something of a predicament. That's not the way things are headed.

 

[Imaro]

Then I fear you're in something of a predicament. That's not the way things are headed.

I'm sorry... What? The vast majority of role-playing games are still published as books... even if it's PoD... so exactly what predicament am I in?

EDIT: In fact I am trying to think of a publisher that has gone totally digital on a subscription model for their rules and I can't...