Are we tired of elves yet?

[Shard O'Glase]

Don't like them one bit. Sub races are dumb, different cultures fine, different stats lame. How much I dislike them in 3.X depends on the races of the pointy eared kind book that will likely come out soon, since races of stone came out last week or the week before.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I voted kinda tired, mainly because of the subrace problem.

(However, if there was to be one more subrace, I would definitely vote for "Helium Elf.")

Having read a lot of the old European epics and folklore (the forerunners of modern Fantasy) as well as most of the big names in Fantasy fiction, I do agree that there is too much of this "elves as the epitome of everything" going on as well. While the legends do depict elves/faerie as impossibly beautiful, often it is because of magical glamours that disguise them. To reference Moorcock, they are almost as varied as Agents of Chaos in appearance. And while they are almost universally associated with nature and great artistic achievements, many of them can be cruel...much like humans.

In that, they remind me of the stories of Greco/Roman (and other ancient) gods. Powerful they may be, but morally superior they are not.

I am loathe to design house-ruled PC races, but were I to be in charge of re-writing elves for D&D, I'd borrow a page from the drow and give them innate spells, mostly low-level illusions and spells related to nature, playing up their innate magical connection. Favored class: Sorcerer, since they are innately magical. The sleep/charm immunity would be replaced with a moderate spell resistance or enhanced counterspelling ability, and Spellcraft would be a class skill. Keep the weapon proficiencies. Minimal number of standard subraces- High, Drow, Aquatic- and do the rest with class choices. There's nothing about Wild/Wood elves you couldn't do with the Ranger, Druid, and Barbarian classes, and the rest...feh! Instead of subraces for every campaign setting, I'd use the base 3 subraces with campaign setting elf templates. So, for example, the Dark Sun setting would have High, Drow and Aquatic elves, but they would be somewhat different from the standard races since they have been tempered in the environmental furnace of Athas. Athasian Aquatic elves would be about as rare as a PC race could get, probably surviving only in subterranean waters.

Maybe make them ECL +1 to +3. And of course, to keep them available as 1st level PCs, I'd use the racial class levels from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed.

 

[Afrodyte]

In that, they remind me of the stories of Greco/Roman (and other ancient) gods. Powerful they may be, but morally superior they are not.

This is precisely my view of elves, and why I am often dismayed at how this is frequently ignored. Yes, you want things to be balanced, but more importantly, they should be interesting.

I am loathe to design house-ruled PC races, but were I to be in charge of re-writing elves for D&D, I'd borrow a page from the drow and give them innate spells, mostly low-level illusions and spells related to nature, playing up their innate magical connection. Favored class: Sorcerer, since they are innately magical. The sleep/charm immunity would be replaced with a moderate spell resistance or enhanced counterspelling ability, and Spellcraft would be a class skill. Keep the weapon proficiencies. Minimal number of standard subraces- High, Drow, Aquatic- and do the rest with class choices. There's nothing about Wild/Wood elves you couldn't do with the Ranger, Druid, and Barbarian classes, and the rest...feh! Instead of subraces for every campaign setting, I'd use the base 3 subraces with campaign setting elf templates. So, for example, the Dark Sun setting would have High, Drow and Aquatic elves, but they would be somewhat different from the standard races since they have been tempered in the environmental furnace of Athas. Athasian Aquatic elves would be about as rare as a PC race could get, probably surviving only in subterranean waters.

Maybe make them ECL +1 to +3. And of course, to keep them available as 1st level PCs, I'd use the racial class levels from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed.

You know, this is similar to my own house rules for elves and other magical races. I'd take it one step further and remove both drow and aquatic elves completely. Evil elves with drive and organization enough to pose a serious threat to good elves and other races don't really warrant a subrace. Beautiful, magical, vaguely humanoid creatures who dwell in the sea? Ever heard of mermaids, mermen, and sirens?

 

[malien]

I voted for being cool with my elves. But really, I think the standard view of them is somewhat boring, and I don't really bother with all these subraces that flop up everywhere.

Granted, I don't use 75-85% of the entries in my Monster Manual, so hey, not a big surprise, right? I think elves have their place, though. Never does a game I run have them the same, and I have to admit to loving how they are done both in Eberron and Iron Kingdoms. I'm already stealing ideas for my next game.

The only two PC races I really ever use (and my gaming group is a bunch of human fanboys - well, and a fangirl) are humans, elves and dwarves. I don't like halflings and gnomes, and never write them into my worlds. Tieflings, aasimar, genasi, half-elves, half-orcs are all beings that exist in the 'human' world (more or less) so they can be included as flavour or PC when necessary.

But elves and dwarves are the counters of humanity. Elves are an example (IMO) of an alien culture, a view on the world that is not driven the same way as a human's view. They plot in the decades and centuries, rather than weeks and months, and do things for reasons that seem ridiculous to humans, etc. Maybe they're xenophobic, or isolationist, or haughty too, but that depends on what I need from them.

Dwarves are the example of what a 'unified' society can build. Carved a world from rock, and all that.

Each race has its uses, and its place. It all depends on what you need from your game. So, I think saying 'elves' are overdone, or something like that is a bit more of a personal question than a 'D&D in general' question. Are elves burnt out in your game? Twist them. Or don't include them.

But like anything in D&D, I think they're only just as flawed a tool as your DM lets them be.

Or... something.

 

[Gez]

You know, I've never really seen that much of the whole 'elf fanboy' thing that a lot of people talk about.

Truly, ENWorld is a blessed community. But you can go there for an accurate example of elven fanboyism.

 

[Agamemnon]

Dwarves are the example of what a 'unified' society can build. Carved a world from rock, and all that.

I agree with this one. There is a pic in the Eberron Art Gallery on the Wizards site that hammers the point home.This one.

Dwarves are the kind of people who do things like THAT. No other culture would even dream of carving a picture of their king or god or whatever into what looks like four, five kilometers of mountain.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Agamemnon: Hahahahaha. So dwarves are Americans?

 

[Aaron L]

I love elves. I am tired of whining.

 

[Dark Jezter]

So, I think saying 'elves' are overdone, or something like that is a bit more of a personal question than a 'D&D in general' question.

This was posted in the thread about dwarves, but I think it's suitable for this thread too.

Number of products that come up when you do searches for different races at RPGNow:

Gnomes: 15
Halflings: 19
Dwarves: 58
Elves: 219

 

[Agamemnon]

Agamemnon: Hahahahaha. So dwarves are Americans?

Dwarves are people who do things in a grand scale. I won't delve into politics.