D&D 5E Are Wizards really all that?

[ECMO3]

Replying to myself here.. I know that a great many of the spells were created to help make the bladesinger more viable.

But hear me out..the bladesinger is the perfect illustration for the problem with WoTCs priorities

It was an elf-specific wizard subclass for which they created brand new spells to allow them to better replace melee damage dealers. It's full freaking bingo card of stuff we don't need.

Edit: To contrast this, they created a dwarf-specific barbarian and tied non-scaling abilities to a piece of non-scaling equipment that conflicts with another barbarian class feature.<chef's kiss>

I love it. Bladesinger is one of my favorite classes.

It was not the spells that enabled them to better challange melee classes, it is their 6th level extra attack ability.

IMO it is not a "problem" with their priorities at all, it is great thing and really enabled a viable wizard class that could dominate melee.

There are the blade cantrips, but there are few new leveled spells that make the bladesinger better at melee. There is absorb elements, but I feel like that was more for everyone, not just bladesingers. A lot of people will say shadowblade, but honestly that was created for Arcane tricksters I think and although people get it, it is generally not a good spell for a bladesinger. You can get it and it will boost damage a little bit, but it is concentration which means no PEG or Blur or Haste. If you want to dominate melee one of these three spells is usually a batter choice.

The most important wizard spells for a bladesinger who wants to dominate melee IMO are in order: Shield, Absorb Elements, Protection from Evil and good, Blur, Haste, False Life and Contingency. I think all of those except absorb elements were in the PHB.

 

[ECMO3]

Bladesinger should just have been its own Gish class, then the Wizard wouldn't have gotten so many new spells to do something it shouldn't.

If they did that they would need to create another Wizard to replace it that could do the same thing. Bladesinger is one of the funnest characters to play, along with Arcane Tricksters and Fey Wanderers.

Also I would argue the Ranger is already a GISH class, and we have other Gish's on the Fighter, Bard, Cleric and Warlock chassis. Why leave the Wizard out?

 

[Reynard]

They should just reinstitute the maximum spells known rule to solve the unlimited options problem. Still, clerics and druids are much more egregious on that front since they can just pray for whatever,no matter how ill-conceived. The wizard at least has to learn the spell.

 

[Minigiant]

If they did that they would need to create another Wizard to replace it that could do the same thing. Bladesinger is one of the funnest characters to play, along with Arcane Tricksters and Fey Wanderers.

Also I would argue the Ranger is already a GISH class, and we have other Gish's on the Fighter, Bard, Cleric and Warlock chassis. Why leave the Wizard out?

The Ranger used to be the gish class when it had both Druid/Cleric spells and Wizard/MU spells.

Then the community lost the plot.

 

[ECMO3]

The Ranger used to be the gish class when it had both Druid/Cleric spells and Wizard/MU spells.

Then the community lost the plot.

The current Ranger is very much GISH, especially if you take primal awareness, Druidic Warrior fighting style and one of the newer subclasses.

I think the current Range it is the best iteration yet. I played 1E and I found those Rangers to be pretty much just fighters with d8 hit dice, limited weapon selections and the ability to track. They did have both Druid and MU spells but they came on very late, were really weak for the level, and the spell mechanics from 1E made them not that useful. I can't remember my 1E Rangers ever casting a spell in combat. Also in many campaigns you never got high enough in level to even use the spells.

5E is much more of a Gish, you are getting spells at level 2, getting more through your class/subclass and you are getting nearly as many total castings as a full caster.

 

[Minigiant]

The current Ranger is very much GISH, especially if you take primal awareness, Druidic Warrior fighting style and one of the newer subclasses.

I think the current Range it is the best iteration yet. I played 1E and I found those Rangers to be pretty much just fighters with d8 hit dice, limited weapon selections and the ability to track. They did have both Druid and MU spells but they came on very late, were really weak for the level, and the spell mechanics from 1E made them not that useful. I can't remember my 1E Rangers ever casting a spell in combat. Also in many campaigns you never got high enough in level to even use the spells.

5E is much more of a Gish, you are getting spells at level 2, getting more through your class/subclass and you are getting nearly as many total castings as a full caster.

I meant that the 1e ranger had wizard/mu spells to replicate Aragorn's divination proficiency. 3e had some of it as will as well with a lot of sensory augments and tracking spells.

5e has ranger's as monster hunters as lore. But WOTC skimped on the detection and tracking magic.

 

[ECMO3]

I meant that the 1e ranger had wizard/mu spells to replicate Aragorn's divination proficiency. 3e had some of it as will as well with a lot of sensory augments and tracking spells.

5e has ranger's as monster hunters as lore. But WOTC skimped on the detection and tracking magic.

Hmm Maybe, we never used them for that. Our 1E Rangers typically had maybe one or two entangles and then maybe something like dancing lights or light as their magic user spell. That was at around 10th level when those spells started to come online, so not real useful.

I never really used them for any detection or tracking and so I don't really miss that magic much on my 5E Rangers.

 

[Undrave]

IMO it is not a "problem" with their priorities at all, it is great thing and really enabled a viable wizard class that could dominate melee.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM! A Wizard should NOT be able to dominate melee! A party of Wizard shouldn't be able to outmelee the party of Fighter while having more skills and ways to easly overcome obstacles in other pillars. It's bonkers!

Bladesinger is one of the funnest characters to play, along with Arcane Tricksters and Fey Wanderers.

Then wouldn't you like if the Bladesinger was part of a whole class where you could ACTUALLY start as a Bladesinger from level 1 and they got variations like the 4e teleporting Swordmage?

 

[SakanaSensei]

THAT'S THE PROBLEM! A Wizard should NOT be able to dominate melee! A party of Wizard shouldn't be able to outmelee the party of Fighter while having more skills and ways to easly overcome obstacles in other pillars. It's bonkers!

Then wouldn't you like if the Bladesinger was part of a whole class where you could ACTUALLY start as a Bladesinger from level 1 and they got variations like the 4e teleporting Swordmage?

I started my time with the 4E, but I've definitely DMed more of 5E at this point. Almost every session that a caster pulls out an "I win" button to a problem, I miss 4 more and more. I've had to give my martials SO. MUCH. HELP. to try to stay relevant, and the cleric still runs around with spirit guardians invalidating lots of fights, while simultaneously speaking with dead to solve mysteries and everything else.

 

[Minigiant]

Hmm Maybe, we never used them for that. Our 1E Rangers typically had maybe one or two entangles and then maybe something like dancing lights or light as their magic user spell. That was at around 10th level when those spells started to come online, so not real useful.

I never really used them for any detection or tracking and so I don't really miss that magic much on my 5E Rangers.

My 1E DM had let my ranger use MU scrolls. By the time I got to level 10, ourU had a bunch of leftover scrolls and had TONS of money to buy scrolls from NPC mages.

So between my ranger, the other players MU, and a crystal ball we snagged from a hag, our group had good divination whether either of us showed up.

The 3e ranger had good tracking spells in later splats. You could see covered footprints or track by scent. But the divination stunk as the 3e ranger shared most spells with the druid.

The 5e ranger went the 3e root and outside of flame arrow, the ranger lacks most of its wizardness.