D&D (2024) Are you going to buy the new 2024 D&D Core Books

[Charlaquin]

The entire combat system, along with improvements to a number of classes and subclasses -- all of which are perfectly doable on the tabletop and not based on the fact that "it's a video game."

What true innovations to the 5E design have recent books introduced?

I am waiting for the console release so I haven’t played BG3 yet, but my understanding was that the combat mechanics are pretty much straight-up 5e verbatim. And the tweaks to class and subclass features from what I’ve read on Fextralife appear pretty much in line with the sort of things we’re seeing in the playtest. Like, the special weapon actions are basically weapon masteries, but restricted to once per short rest and available to any character with the relevant proficiency. Warlocks get their pact boon upgraded for free at 5th level, just like the cantrip versions in packet 5 did. Berserker changes seem right in line with the playtest. Really the only major improvement I see in BG3 that we aren’t seeing something very similar to in the playtest is the ranger. And I guess the thief rogue getting a second bonus action instead of being able to Use an Object with Cunning Action, but that’s a trade I’m happy to make in exchange for Cunning Strike.

 

[Charlaquin]

You know a lot about the contents. A whole lot.

No, I have seen a whole lot of things floated in Unearthed Arcana. One of the things I’ve seen is that everything that has been floated is subject to change depending on how the survey feedback shakes out. I’ve also seen how much 5e changed from the final D&D Next open playtest packet as a result of internal playtesting. Combined, the message is clear to me: don’t get too attached to anything previewed in Unearthed Arcana, because there’s every chance that won’t be reflective of what ends up in the final product.

You enjoy discussing D&D rules on a nearly daily basis here, right? You really don't know enough at this point to know you will probably want access to them in some fashion, or else have already decided on a different system to focus on going forward?

I do know that I will probably want the new rules. Provided they look substantially similar to what has been in the playtest so far, which all evidence leads me to believe is not something I can count on being the case.

You're being so overly hesitant and irresolute. It's not like you to be so insecure in knowing your likes and dislikes concerning this kind of topic.

I’m very secure in knowing my likes and dislikes, and have not been at all shy about expressing them, as you’ve clearly seen. What I am not secure in is faith that what we have been shown so far (which I do like and would buy) is going to be substantially the final product. Maybe after UA 10, I’ll be more sure of what the PHB will look like. But then, there are two other books I might or might not decide to buy when they come out.

 

[Parmandur]

I am waiting for the console release so I haven’t played BG3 yet, but my understanding was that the combat mechanics are pretty much straight-up 5e verbatim. And the tweaks to class and subclass features from what I’ve read on Fextralife appear pretty much in line with the sort of things we’re seeing in the playtest. Like, the special weapon actions are basically weapon masteries, but restricted to once per short rest and available to any character with the relevant proficiency. Warlocks get their pact boon upgraded for free at 5th level, just like the cantrip versions in packet 5 did. Berserker changes seem right in line with the playtest. Really the only major improvement I see in BG3 that we aren’t seeing something very similar to in the playtest is the ranger. And I guess the thief rogue getting a second bonus action instead of being able to Use an Object with Cunning Action, but that’s a trade I’m happy to make in exchange for Cunning Strike.

The BG3 changes actually already were the background for the Tasha's Class optional features in 2020, so theybare baking the same changes into the new Core now, basically.

 

[Reynard]

The BG3 changes actually already were the background for the Tasha's Class optional features in 2020, so theybare baking the same changes into the new Core now, basically.

Except it appears they have backed off most of the changes for fear of... something. Mostly internet grousing, I surmise.

Here is the thing that is relevant: WotC has two choices. One option is to pretty much do what they have been doing with maybe some minor tweaks, but it has been working for them and that's great. But maintaining that strategy is them assuming that the market will remain the same, that the same strategies will produce the same results. In the modern consumer world, that seems unwise. The other option is to innovate, which has the potential to alienate existing fans. New fans won't care, except insofar as how the broader "influencer" community discusses those innovations.

My gut says that WotC is fundamentally conservative in a creative sense. The "lesson" they took from 4E is that innovation leads to fracturing the community -- especially with 5E "in the wild" via Creative Commons. So in order to protect their market share and growth, they are going to do... essentially nothing of note. It will be another ten years of the same vanilla D&D-isms with a couple bright spots here and there. But that doesn't guarantee success because their audience is weened on a wide variety of pretty innovative media. You can't keep kids who grew up with Stephen Universe and Adventure Time happy with The Forgotten Realms.

Who is WotC trying to sell the 2024 set to? Many folks in this thread have suggested that they essentially aren't. Or, rather, the 2024 set is just for people that join the community anew or those that replace their PHBs over time. And that makes some sense, but it suggests that the trade dress, art direction and general tone of the writing of 2024 5E is going to have to change significantly in order to appeal to a demographic a whole consumer generation different from the ones that bought 5E the last time around. i don't think we have seen evidence that WotC is capable of making those kinds of leaps.

D&D has a Kleenex problem that is just going to get worse over time. Any RPG is going to be D&D to those entering the hobby now. Avatar made nearly $10 million -- a stupid amount. Many of those who backed that game very likely assumed that it was some version of "D&D" because "D&D" doesn't mean anything specific to people just entering the hobby. If they ask their older cousin to run D&D for them, they won't know or care if that game is Savage Worlds or DCC or Dungeon World. In order to capture that cohort, WotC must come up with a strategy beyond "We make D&D." Which it doesn't feel like they are.

Except DnD Beyond. That, I think, is where WotC is focusing their attention. They know that the rules are onerous. They know that paperwork isn't fun. So by providing the most complete digital support for a generation that assumes that a) everything gets digital support and b) you pay a subscription for everything, WotC can capture those potential customers where other companies -- companies that produce games that are as good or better than D&D for what that cohort actually wants to experience -- can't compete with.

 

[Parmandur]

Except it appears they have backed off most of the changes for fear of... something. Mostly internet grousing, I surmise.

Here is the thing that is relevant: WotC has two choices. One option is to pretty much do what they have been doing with maybe some minor tweaks, but it has been working for them and that's great. But maintaining that strategy is them assuming that the market will remain the same, that the same strategies will produce the same results. In the modern consumer world, that seems unwise. The other option is to innovate, which has the potential to alienate existing fans. New fans won't care, except insofar as how the broader "influencer" community discusses those innovations.

My gut says that WotC is fundamentally conservative in a creative sense. The "lesson" they took from 4E is that innovation leads to fracturing the community -- especially with 5E "in the wild" via Creative Commons. So in order to protect their market share and growth, they are going to do... essentially nothing of note. It will be another ten years of the same vanilla D&D-isms with a couple bright spots here and there. But that doesn't guarantee success because their audience is weened on a wide variety of pretty innovative media. You can't keep kids who grew up with Stephen Universe and Adventure Time happy with The Forgotten Realms.

Who is WotC trying to sell the 2024 set to? Many folks in this thread have suggested that they essentially aren't. Or, rather, the 2024 set is just for people that join the community anew or those that replace their PHBs over time. And that makes some sense, but it suggests that the trade dress, art direction and general tone of the writing of 2024 5E is going to have to change significantly in order to appeal to a demographic a whole consumer generation different from the ones that bought 5E the last time around. i don't think we have seen evidence that WotC is capable of making those kinds of leaps.

D&D has a Kleenex problem that is just going to get worse over time. Any RPG is going to be D&D to those entering the hobby now. Avatar made nearly $10 million -- a stupid amount. Many of those who backed that game very likely assumed that it was some version of "D&D" because "D&D" doesn't mean anything specific to people just entering the hobby. If they ask their older cousin to run D&D for them, they won't know or care if that game is Savage Worlds or DCC or Dungeon World. In order to capture that cohort, WotC must come up with a strategy beyond "We make D&D." Which it doesn't feel like they are.

Except DnD Beyond. That, I think, is where WotC is focusing their attention. They know that the rules are onerous. They know that paperwork isn't fun. So by providing the most complete digital support for a generation that assumes that a) everything gets digital support and b) you pay a subscription for everything, WotC can capture those potential customers where other companies -- companies that produce games that are as good or better than D&D for what that cohort actually wants to experience -- can't compete with.

I have seen zero evidence that WotC has difficulty with creating product that appeals to The Yut, based on my observations of The Yut (whether Zoomer or Alpha) interacting with said product.

Innovation isn't necessarily the best thing for a game, per se. And the Evergreen strategy thrybare pursuing is more of a slow and steady approach. But as some of the qild things they've done in just the past year show (Radiant Citadel, Dragonlance as an Adventure/boardgames, a Heist book, etc) thst doesn't have to be dull or uninteresting. It's not how "innovative" it is, it's what you do with it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Oh yes, because you have such difficulties being real and stating what you truly think here at ENWorld. I do wish you would break out of your shell more often and really step out and speak your mind. You're so overly polite and cautious in what you say.

Mod Note:

Folks, stop making it personal like this person has done. Disagree with the position, but don’t attack your fellow ENWorlders.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Just the core incase I play in a 5.5e game.

 

[R_J_K75]

What true innovations to the 5E design have recent books introduced?

I don't think 5E was ever really that innovative. As much as I didn't care for 4E, I respected that it tried to take the game in a radical new direction, something I don't think the 2024 5E revision can or will do.

 

[TheSword]

The entire combat system, along with improvements to a number of classes and subclasses -- all of which are perfectly doable on the tabletop and not based on the fact that "it's a video game."

What true innovations to the 5E design have recent books introduced?

I agree, I’ve been saying for a while that there should be bonus (mini) maneuvers that anyone can do, like the weapons abilitie. The only other change I can see to combat though is shove as a bonus action - which to be honest I don’t like. It spoils spells like sleep - and I’ve had too many characters hit then pushed into chasms or off boats to like the mechanic!

What other things do you think they have innovated?

I think the style of Golden Vault was pretty darn good writing. I think WotC seems to be getting better at linking their anthology style adventures. The far realm and the organisation itself was a good way of doing that.

All we need now is a capstone adventure that rounds out the Far Realm threads, reveals the golden vault organisation and brings back some of the characters from the individual heists… if anyone with a DMGuild account and talent wants to get something out there.

 

[Velderan]

This. I buy into Dwarven Forge kickstarters. $100 for some books is negligible. Even better, DDB lets me share those books with all my new players, for whom $100 is not negligible.

Question about DDB content sharing: any idea if you're still able to share stuff like Volo's with a new player who didn't have access to the book prior to it being marked as legacy? I figured maybe you'd know since it sounds like you end up sharing content with brand new players more frequently than most here.