Are you tired of conditions?

[Skallgrim]

I'm really surprised that people are so frustrated with conditions. My players have adopted three strategies for conditions:

Characters that REALLY hate a particular condition (our super-fast elf ranger hates being slowed or immobilized) find, seek out, or buy, magic items that give them a bonus to saves against that condtion.

Our Cleric (of Avandra), uses Attack powers that give an ally a save (one's even an At-Will!).

We make liberal use of Aid Another and Favorable Circumstances. For example, when immobilized by glue pots, the ranger was helped by the wizard using Prestidigitation to remove some of the glue (for a +2 to his save). The same wizard, when blinded by a cloud of ash, asked to use prestidigitation to help him with his own save (my reply as DM: "Of course!").

To me, conditions are a GREAT way to get the PCs to approach a fight as something other than "Remove all the monster HP in the room". By encouraging cool team oriented powers, and allowing creative Aid Another skills, and using liberal bonuses for sensible "real world" tactics, I feel that I'm getting my players to visualize the fight better, and be more creative in combat.

Also, the "poor PC" who gets targeted by repeated conditions? In the games I've been running, this is a fun encounter feature called "Rescue X". In one fight, it was the halfling Rogue, grabbed by a eldritch tentacle and being dragged towards the boiling cauldron. In another, it was the doughty dwarf, being gnawed by a pack of ghouls. Sometimes, it's really fun for one PC to be in serious trouble, so that the fight is more about rescuing your friend that beating your enemy.

 

[Beckett]

I think I might be tempted to give people additional ways of removing status effects via actions. For example, making an Endurance check of an appropriate DC as a standard action to attempt to remove a condition. After all, if someone is on fire, why can't he do something to attempt to fix it like pat the fire out or shrug off his cloak or whatever? Why should it require a specific leaders utility power to give him the extra chance of escape?

Cheers

Heal does allow a character to grant another character a save, or +2 to a save rolled at the end of the term. Standard action part of first aid. If you're so inclined, you could probably adapt the mechanic for use with other skills in situations, like the ones you mentioned.

 

[GameJunkie]

Sorry mate, but I prefer to have a sense of realism and role-playing in my games. If you prefer to have what is essentially a tactical wargame then more power to you, but your suggestions seem more fitting for a game of D&D minis combat than an RPG.

I guess that you are happy with people who keep on burning until they roll a 10 or higher on their turn or on someone elses turn, but wouldn't allow them to jump into the pool of water to put out the fires? Or drop and roll (you know, the kind of thing that you would do in real life if you caught on fire)?

Why wouldn't you want to inspire innovative thinking? It seems to me that there are two essential ways of taking it:

a) anything not specifically prohibited may be attempted
b) anything not specifically allowed cannot be attempted.

Personally I've always preferred the former, both as DM and as player.

Regards,

Don't assume to know what I like. And please don't ignore that 4.0 rewards tactics and minis. I suppose you penalize a player for thinking ahead and knowing that he or she may be weak or strong in certain areas? Why act surprised if they play to their in built strengths and do something sensible like anybody in the real world and get items to help them with their obvious weaknesses? Far better that the players think than have the DM make one more inane houserule because they are thinking worst case scenerio all the time. Seriously if I as a player am always getting nailed by certain things I will make it my life mission to either retrain or aquire an item that will help me stop getting nailed by said condition.

If you prefer realism and roleplaying I would suggest many other games than DnD, especially 4.0. GURPS is a decent game for realism. Swords and Sorcery/Harn/Rolemaster all are better at "realism". Making for good game I can't say given I don't know you. Roleplaying is a subjective term so I really can't help you there.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Why have Utilities if a simple skill check could erase my encounter or better yet my Daily power just because you can't deal with a Controller. That is a Controller's whole mission. It is to MESS YOU UP without being boring. They already removed the best reason to play a magic user why not do it full bore? (As I giggle and laugh all the harder as the books come in with the RAW rules and options to the said RAW).

Seriously just get a few items already. And deal with the fact that penalizing you is a given. It is the very basis of the difference between CONTROL and BLASTER. I mean come on, if you have a balanced party you have at least one player that can directly alter conditions straight up, it is THEIR job, they are damn good at it also. Leaders are the antithesis of Controllers. Defenders and Strikers the same yet they compliment each other, so get your players to do it already.

Spending a Standard Action to make a check to get an extra save is still very costly. I wouldn't object to such a house rule.

Besides, Heal can already be used to grant extra saves, if I am not mistaken. The opportunity cost is still there, there is a tactical decision to make - do I risk granting combat advantage for another round and not having a move action then against not being able to do anything at all this round?

 

[GenghisDon]

I guess leaders with abilities to grant saves/end conditions would be useful or feats like action recovery.

As an player of 1e on up, we once called such condtions "get to the couch" because you were often gone for a WHILE. Since I have always DMed 99.9% of the time, I can only assume how much that sucked. What you describe as endless nit pickery may actually be worse, you can't leave/take a cat nap & still get to do nothing. I haven't seen that happen yet, but I can see what monsters might cause it. 4e has by FAR the most party interaction in combat in the various forms of D&D, it seeks & holds attention in combat very well, considering the gerbil-like attention span people seem to have today. I really don't know which is worse, the boredom by a thousand yawns or the sleep this fight off. I can pick which is more likely to happen by playing the different editions. If you are concerned as a DM, try to avoid condition heavy encounters, or at least don't place them back to back to back.

 

[Herschel]

If players are tired of conditions then they should consider putting more resources into countering conditions. There are plenty of items / powers / feats that can reduce the risk or length of being under a negative condition. Players should invest in these instead of more obvious choices like DPR or AC.

Amen. I hate imobilize most of all because when I play I tend to play mobile characters but it is all good.

 

[CubeKnight]

I'm really surprised that people are so frustrated with conditions. My players have adopted three strategies for conditions:

Characters that REALLY hate a particular condition (our super-fast elf ranger hates being slowed or immobilized) find, seek out, or buy, magic items that give them a bonus to saves against that condtion.

Our Cleric (of Avandra), uses Attack powers that give an ally a save (one's even an At-Will!).

We make liberal use of Aid Another and Favorable Circumstances. For example, when immobilized by glue pots, the ranger was helped by the wizard using Prestidigitation to remove some of the glue (for a +2 to his save). The same wizard, when blinded by a cloud of ash, asked to use prestidigitation to help him with his own save (my reply as DM: "Of course!").

To me, conditions are a GREAT way to get the PCs to approach a fight as something other than "Remove all the monster HP in the room". By encouraging cool team oriented powers, and allowing creative Aid Another skills, and using liberal bonuses for sensible "real world" tactics, I feel that I'm getting my players to visualize the fight better, and be more creative in combat.

Also, the "poor PC" who gets targeted by repeated conditions? In the games I've been running, this is a fun encounter feature called "Rescue X". In one fight, it was the halfling Rogue, grabbed by a eldritch tentacle and being dragged towards the boiling cauldron. In another, it was the doughty dwarf, being gnawed by a pack of ghouls. Sometimes, it's really fun for one PC to be in serious trouble, so that the fight is more about rescuing your friend that beating your enemy.

That's what seems the most obvious answer to me.

If I really, really hate a particular condition, and it seems it'll be popping up much more often, you can bet my char will try to get something to counter it. Not just complain about it, but do something about it. You know, like IRL.