D&D 5E Armor as DR. Is anyone considering this?

[MarkB]

One issue with armour-as-DR in 5e is that damage output is now pretty much the only thing that does scale with level - and it scales a lot. For DR to work and not be utterly swamped at higher levels, you couldn't just assign a numeric DR value to each armour type - you'd need to be constantly topping up the DR as characters levelled up.

Alternatively, you could use a percentile model, as with 5e's current damage resistance - have heavy armour give you the full 50% reduction in damage, whilst light and medium armour gave lesser reductions. The tricky part there is that, for anything other than a straightforward halving of damage, it becomes a pain to calculate each time.

 

[Minigiant]

DR makes sense but it is a slog outside of video games.

To me, resistance is the way to go.
Lower AC of medium and heavy armor by some value but the first hit
deals half damage outside crits.

 

[Wrathamon]

I agree that DR in most games I have played has never worked out well.

You basically become invulnerable to a lot of attacks and that just seems bad and combat tends to take a lot longer.

It is better when you have like 6 wounds and DR is the only thing keeping you alive type games.

I would suggest if DR is added to the game.

Cut HPs by half (you only get a HD ever other level or roll HPs and divide by two)
Add a damage save and the Armor gives a prof bonus to the save or assign armor a die type and roll it to reduce that much damage.

I think if I did DR it would be in a Wound based system (characters have very few wounds).

Armor would give a player a die type and the DC would be 6 to prevent a wound.
light = d6
med = d8
heavy = d10
magic increases the die type by 1

 

[doghead]

I would start with Ken Hood's Grim and Gritty alternative combat rules. While it was designed for 3rd Edition, I don't think that the conversion would be too hard.

GnG uses armour as DR and flat hit points. Creature size, however, has a significant impact on the equation. Wounds resulted in dice roll penalties. Threatening a Critical Hit gave you a number of options including bypassing armour (the heavier the armour the harder it was to confirm), doing extra damage (as normal) or, IIRC, stunning or otherwise affecting your opponent.

My favourite aspects to the rules were that wounds meant something and that the bigger creatures were terrifying in their ability to dish out and take damage.

If I were to start another D&D game, I would go back to using GnG.

thotd

 

[enigma5915]

I would start with Ken Hood's Grim and Gritty alternative combat rules. While it was designed for 3rd Edition, I don't think that the conversion would be too hard.

GnG uses armour as DR and flat hit points. Creature size, however, has a significant impact on the equation. Wounds resulted in dice roll penalties. Threatening a Critical Hit gave you a number of options including bypassing armour (the heavier the armour the harder it was to confirm), doing extra damage (as normal) or, IIRC, stunning or otherwise affecting your opponent.

My favourite aspects to the rules were that wounds meant something and that the bigger creatures were terrifying in their ability to dish out and take damage.

If I were to start another D&D game, I would go back to using GnG.

thotd

That's the angle I was pondering. Flat HPs based on con and creature size, increasing weapon damage, and DR from armor. I'm working out the numbers to see how it looks. I like the idea of ogres being terrifying, not to mention giants and dragons.

 

[Warbringer]

In my homebrew I've been doing hp ablation for the last few years.

Armor has AC and hit points.
Multiply each +1 of current AC by 5, this gives the HPs
Divide current AC by 2 and round up, this is new AC bonus
Each +1 magic adds 10ps but no AC bonus, but can no more than double the base armor.

So half plate is now +3, 25 HPs, upto +20 hps from magic

On any attack, the player can absorb upto half the damage from any blow with armor.

When armor has lost all its HPs it is in disrepair (-1 to AC) and can obviously not absorb any more damage until repaired.

 

[doghead]

That's the angle I was pondering. Flat HPs based on con and creature size, increasing weapon damage, and DR from armor. I'm working out the numbers to see how it looks. I like the idea of ogres being terrifying, not to mention giants and dragons.

Google got me this. Version 4. Saves having to re-invent the wheel.

http://shadowofthebeast.weebly.com/uploads/2/4/5/2/24524433/gg.pdf

There are numerous threads on GnG here at ENWorld which may help as well.

thotd

Edit: Its seems google has also made a lier out of me. Version 4 (2.1 and 3.3 as well) all use increasing HP; increasing with size as well as level. There are other changes as well. The rules I use are the Revised and Simplified rules, with a common life bar (25hp) for all creatures as well as a variety of Critical Hit options. I don't have a link handy for the simplified version.

 

[Joe Liker]

In order to do this right, you'd need to construct an entirely new game, to the extent that it would no longer be recognizable as D&D (apart from fluff).

You'd need horizontal character advancement rather than vertical, and the concepts of accuracy and hit points would have to change drastically. Saving throws and magic would also need an overhaul to accommodate all of these new definitions. You'd also want new skills and feats that fit your system better.

I'm not saying such a game wouldn't be fun. I'm saying if you did go to all the trouble required to make it all work well together, you might as well write it up formally and get it published, because you'd basically have a new product on your hands.

 

[Syunsuke]

How about DR per die?
Say, a leather armor has 1 DR per die.
When you suffer 2d6 damage, your leather armor reduces 2 points of damage.
This is kind of percentage DR, though you don't need complex math.

If plate mail has 3 DR per die, a 1d12 weapon (great axe ?) is more effective than a 2d6 weapon against a fighter with plate mail.
2d6 - 3*2 = average 1
1d12 - 3 = average 3.5

Obviously some rule adjustment is required, but maybe not so huge one.

 

[doghead]

In order to do this right, you'd need to construct an entirely new game, to the extent that it would no longer be recognizable as D&D (apart from fluff).

You'd need horizontal character advancement rather than vertical, and the concepts of accuracy and hit points would have to change drastically. Saving throws and magic would also need an overhaul to accommodate all of these new definitions. You'd also want new skills and feats that fit your system better.

I'm not saying such a game wouldn't be fun. I'm saying if you did go to all the trouble required to make it all work well together, you might as well write it up formally and get it published, because you'd basically have a new product on your hands.

It can be done, and has by Ken Hood (that I know of).

Whether or not it was done right depends on the individual. I, among others, think he did it right. It works well, doesn't require nearly as much amendments as you suggest, and is recognisable as DnD.

You may not agree. That's cool. I'm not trying to sell you anything.

thotd