D&D General Would You Buy an RPG Product Printed on a Gutenberg Press?

[LordEntrails]

The Gutenberg Press didn't depend on stealing the intellectual property of others to create it, didn't insert lies into what it was used to print, and wasn't primarily used to avoid paying people for the work they did.

AI isn't the printing press, it's Mr. Burns's sun blocker:

Hmm. maybe, but probably not. The Catholic church certainly didn't think anyone but them should be printing Bibles. And the GP certainly was used to print lies. And it certainly was primarily about reducing the cost of book production and avoiding the paying of scribes to copy books.

But, to the useful discussion, how can we minimize the harm to TTRPG creators in the changing industry?

As long as needed for the proper change to occur, it's just a little code and some licensing to sort it out. The TTRPG space went the better part of 50 years without it, I challenge you or anyone to provide an argument that doesn't distill down to laziness and blatant disregard for the people actually creating the basis for the "tools" (parasites) making a living off of them in the name of "progress", and for the "greater good" while refusing to both acknowledgeand compensate those that actually made the LLM's possible. That is all it is pure and simple laziness and lack of value placed on the content "we" either can't, or won't create ourselves but now have an easy excuse not to pay for because a LLM is the actual theif and we are (wink wink nudge nudge) unsuspecting accomplices because it is so easy.

Nope not for me nor at a table I will play at.

What's a proper change? Because as you seem to accept, AI technologies are not going away and change will occur. How do we transition from the industry model we have today to whatever is coming in 5 or 10 years?

 

[kayakingpoodle]

What's a proper change? Because as you seem to accept, AI technologies are not going away and change will occur. How do we transition from the industry model we have today to whatever is coming in 5 or 10 years?

To me the onus is on the LLM's scraping the web to teach the models, and that was the time to address it, as they are the ones both changing/upsetting the status quo, whilst profiting from it simultaneously. If they were good stuards of the new technology they are bringing forth they would/should bake the credit/compensation into the process.
It is obvious they chose not too and it is not hard to deduce why they made that choice.

IMHO as the commercial end users of this kind of business model we (the collective we) should shun this business model until the creators are properly credited and compensated. It is clearly possible given the way it works now, and there are very few if any inexcusable reasons it wasn't baked into to the code from the beginning.

 

[Necropolitan]

Hmm. maybe, but probably not. The Catholic church certainly didn't think anyone but them should be printing Bibles. And the GP certainly was used to print lies. And it certainly was primarily about reducing the cost of book production and avoiding the paying of scribes to copy books.

I repeat: The Gutenberg Press didn't depend on stealing the intellectual property of others to create it, didn't insert lies into what it was used to print, and wasn't primarily used to avoid paying people for the work they did.

You're drawing obvious false equivalences because you can't actually defend AI on its own merits.

The plagiarism machine built with stolen art that you use to avoid paying artists is bad.

 

[gnarlygninja]

Well of course it won't change the hearts and minds of the narrow minded. It was never meant to try. It actually wasn't even meant to change the minds of anyone, but rather start a discussion about meaningful ways to lessen the harm of an inevitable change.

I'm not sure who told you that insulting people who disagree with you is a good first step in starting a discussion, but I hope you didn't give them any money for that advice.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

Hey it's midnight and I'm tired I'll be back in the morning to make a witty Marshall McLuhan joke

 

[LordEntrails]

and wasn't primarily used to avoid paying people for the work they did.

Oh really? Maybe your history is different than mine. One of the core complaints was that it would put people out of work. But, as I said, this is not core to the discussion.

The plagiarism machine built with stolen art that you use to avoid paying artists is bad.

So every art school should be shut down because they don't pay the artists for the work they use to train other artists.

I'm not sure who told you that insulting people who disagree with you is a good first step in starting a discussion, but I hope you didn't give them any money for that advice.

Only those who show intolerance and have zero good faith intention to enter into a productive discussion. Oh, and I paid good money for that advice.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

Oh really? Maybe your history is different than mine. One of the core complaints was that it would put people out of work.

There is a huge difference between replacing workers and stealing IP. Let's not conflate the two.

 

[gnarlygninja]

Only those who show intolerance and have zero good faith intention to enter into a productive discussion. Oh, and I paid good money for that advice.

It is wildly ironic to make a mean spirited "satire" in order to belittle the opinions of people who don't want to buy AI dnd products to say something like this.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well of course it won't change the hearts and minds of the narrow minded. It was never meant to try. It actually wasn't even meant to change the minds of anyone,

And it won’t!

but rather start a discussion about meaningful ways to lessen the harm of an inevitable change.

Even if I believed you, such a topic wouldn’t be appropriate for the D&D forum.

 

[Scribe]

So every art school should be shut down because they don't pay the artists for the work they use to train other artists.

How long would it take an art class to generate 1000 versions of a barbarian.

I can get 4 every 10 to 15 seconds, and nobody gets a dime.