Armor Class. Help!

[dead]

I was wondering if ENWorld members could help me out . . .

I am a GM and player in 4 different d20 campaigns. Each has its own take on how to treat Armor Class. Here are the campaigns:

1) d20 Medieval Fantasy. Treats AC as presented in the core rules. This is my campaign and I'm happy with things how they are.

2. d20 Judge Dredd. This is run by my friend and it "sort of" keeps AC as it's presented in the core rules (it's called AR [Armor Rating], from memory?) but it works into it Damage Reduction.

3. d20 Steamtech campaign. This is another friend's campaign. It keeps AC as it's presented in the core rules except all firearms are treated as ranged touch attacks. In other words, they slice right through plate mail. Arrows are still treated normally (even though I argued that arrows can be just as powerful as bullets).

4. d20 Pseudo-Science/Comedy/Horror/Anime. This is another friend's campaign. Now, rule's-wise, this is the strangest. In this campaign, the GM has totally removed AC and replaced it with DF (Dodge Factor) and RR (Ricochet Rating). Basically DF and RR are treated like saving throws. In fact, DF has replaced Reflex saves! This GM argues that AC should be treated just the same as if someone is trying to avoid something with a Reflex save and, thus, should be treated as such. I disagree, I like my AC and Ref saves separate.

Anyway . . . here's my problem:

The other 3 GMs have lately been talking about coming up with an Armor Class system that is consistant across the board for all our games. They argue that this will make it less confusing for players and, in the event of "world-hopping", it will make more sense if the system is the same. They say: "Why should the primary 'physics' of the game change between genres? The genres are just the setting/mood/feel and the primary rules, like AC, are the basic 'physics' and, thus, should be constant."

Now so far I have been resistant. I say: "I like my AC the way it is." To this, they say I am "stubbornly" sticking to tradition. Now, this could be partly true because I've run my fantasy medieval setting since 1E AD&D.

So . . . just to prove to them that I'm not stubborn and that I'm not resistant to change, I'm asking ENWorld members: How do you treat AC in your games?

I'd like to know some good ways individual published d20 systems treat AC as well as peoples' own private "take" on AC. It doesn't matter which genre, and it doesn't matter if it's "universal" or not. At this stage I'm just mining for ideas.

Help please!

P.S. None of us own a copy of d20 Traveller. How do they treat AC?

 

[haiiro]

Now so far I have been resistant. I say: "I like my AC the way it is." To this, they say I am "stubbornly" sticking to tradition. Now, this could be partly true because I've run my fantasy medieval setting since 1E AD&D.

Options 1 through 3 are actually pretty similar. Depending on how heavily it integrates DR, option 2 can be a very small change from the standard system. Option 3 shouldn't matter if you're running the kind of medieval fantasy that doesn't involve guns.

I don't have a unique take on AC to answer your main question with, but I thought it was worth pointing out the similarity between some of the choices you presented.

 

[Piratecat]

I really like AC as core rules-standard, at least for a normal (non-swashbuckler) D&D game. If I was in your shoes I'd probably politely stick by my guns and try to keep the rules the same.

 

[Zappo]

In my games, it works by the book. And it works well.

I disagree with your DMs on the claim that "physics" (whatever that means) are separate from the mood and genre. In fact, they are strongly tied. Proof: try using Call of Cthulhu combat rules with D&D, or viceversa, and see if the mood doesn't change!

This is one of the reasons for which I am strongly convinced that realism not only isn't a requirement for many games (including D&D), but can actually be harmful if it is pursued blindly. Each genre and setting needs the right amound of realism in the right areas, not more, not less, and not in the wrong places.

 

[the Jester]

By the book.

Don't change your game because others want you to run it like they would.

 

[CrazyDrake]

personally, i'd say just use the good old fashioned AC rules.

that said, you might have to compromise. in that case, i'd recomend the Unearthed Arcana AC-as-DR variant. i don't have the book on hand, but it basically works by dividing the current ACs in half, assigning part to AC and part to DR.

i'm curious: in the steampunk game, why do bullets bypass armor? does it depend on the force of the shot? does armor apply to things like balista bolts?

 

[Bloodstone Press]

I mostly agree with Zappo. The way you handle AC depends on the genre, not because physics are different, but because the flavor is different.

I typically follow the rules by the book. In DnD fantasy, I use AC as written. In d20 Modern I use Defense as written. I haven't used any DR systems for armor, but I'd like to, just to try them out.

 

[Deadguy]

What a crappy situation you find yourself in, dead! You're being pressured into accepting a troupe-style of game management (where the group - in this case the group of DMs) adjudicates the game. Now I am not knocking troupe-style play (I play/ref in a troupe-style Mage: the Sorcerers Crusade game, wherein the troupe approach has worked really well). But it wasn't what you signed up for when you started DMing, and it's unreasonable for others to think that they have the right to enforce this on you.

I think your best bet is to argue as Zappo has outlined (that's twice this evening I have recommended Zappo's position!). Talk about the effects that rules have on the mood of the game, and that D&D's AC rules encourage a certain heroic style of play. Make clear that this idea of a unified 'physics of RPGs' is complete hogwash! Indeed, if it were, then a single set of rules could be applied to every genre of RPG without modification. Even GURPS doesn't make that claim!

Oh, and you might point out that you are the one trying to keep things simple by running a standard D&D game using standard rules - so everyone can read the PHB and have a firm grasp of the mechanics.

On a personal note, I can recognise myself about 10 - 15 years ago in your descriptions of fellow DMs. The overwhelming urge to tinker with rulesets, with the surety that 'I' know far better than any mere game designer how to design a 'proper' game (I was the guy that hybridised Palladium RPG with Harnmaster and looked up things like specific heat capacities so spells would have 'proper' effects!) Guess what? I was mostly wrong! And my crappy ideas killed off two campaigns that had up till then worked really well. So stick to your guns, and point out that for the game you are running you are taking advantage of millions of hours of playtesting to produce a reasonable and balanced game!

Good luck, my fellow dead DM!

 

[BSF]

dead,
First off, the Traveller lite rules probably talk about Taveller D20 combat. I would check RPGNow and download the lite rules, they are free.

Second, trying to unify the rules across campaigns sounds like a noble goal. However, these are vastly different campaigns in style. While "unified physics" might sound good, they are not going to work. As you have correctly pointed out, there is no reason why bullets should simply bypass armor when arrows and bolts don't. There is a reason why knights were very unhappy with crossbow wielding conscripts.

Third, I use standard DnD basic AC. There are variants that would be interesting to toy with (such as UA's Armor as DR), but it would change the flavor of my game. I might give it a try in a one-shot sometime, but I am relatively happy with the simplified mechanics of DnD AC.

Of course, I have been gaming for nearly 24 years, maybe I am stubbornly sticking to tradition. Or, maybe I have seen and thought up some bad "physics" that didn't bring any more fun to the game.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm a big fan of the way they do it in D20 Modern. You actually learn to dodge (class bonus to Defense) and you can have a good Defense without armor. However, if you wear armor it stacks.

Note that D20 Modern is a low-magic or no-magic setting, however.