Armor Class Question, HELP!

[hcubed_]

Hello, I'm a fairly new DM and am having a bit of trouble understanding some aspects of the armor class rules. Learning all of the little rules and bits and pieces for such an involved game is confusing. Especially in this case.

It might be a bit of a newbie question, but here it goes:

One of the characters in our campaign is a fighter wearing scale armor. Which is +7 according to the character builder/ handbook. When it is un-equipped, her AC is 14, equipped it's at 18. Is the builder bugging out? Is the AC of this fighter meant to be sitting at 21 rather than 18?

Why is it not adding up right?

The confusion arose as the party's wizard took leather proficiency. He also has staff of defence. Both of which boosted his AC to 18. It makes little sense that this guy has the same AC as the party's fighter.

To confuse things even more, the party's cleric has an AC of 17...

We use the character builder as none of us are really that well endowed with knowledge of this game. Being completely fresh to the game. And the builder makes it all easier for us rather than spending the time adding and minusing bonuses etc..

But, am I missing something? Quite possibly something a newbie like me would? Or is it a case of the character builder acting up?

Thanks in advance if anyone can help!

 

[samursus]

First off welcome to ENWorld!!

The discrepancy from 18 vs 14 Armored vs Unarmored has to do with the fact that if the character is NOT wearing Heavy Armor you get to use your Dex OR Int Bonus to AC.

The cleric having a 17 is normal; the Chainmail he wears is only 1 AC less than Scale.

As for the Wizard, remember Staff of Defense only works vs 1 attack per battle.

Are you playing Players Handbook or Essentials characters? Cleric vs Cleric (Warpriest), Fighter vs Fighter(Slayer)?

There are differences.

Cleric(Warpriests) may have slightly better AC's than Clerics because they get Heavy and Light Shield proficiency.

Fighter (Slayers) are damage dealers, and protection is not their forte; Fighters CAN be damage dealers OR defenders. If you want to be a high Armor Class Defender you would want to be using a Heavy Shield perhaps (+2 to AC and Ref) and use a 1-handed weapon; maybe even taking Platemail proficiency Feat at level 1 (+8AC). This is the most obvious, there are many ways to build a Fighter who defends.

Hope that helps.

 

[Aulirophile]

Pretty much everyone should have an AC within 2-4pts of the Defender. Nothing odd about your Wizard's AC. In light armor you get either your Dex or Int mod to AC, in heavy armor it is a flat amount from the armor itself. At lefel 1 with Staff of Defense, Leather Armor, and 20 int (+5 mod) 18 AC for a Wizard is quite doable.

As to why it isn't adding correctly (or rather why you're confused about it), it could be any number of things you're confused about. If he has a dex mod of 4 he'd have 14 AC naked, add scale and he'd lose dex mod but gain +7 from scale, resulting in a 17. Add a heavy shield he'd be at 19 (which is standard for Defenders, should have around level+18 for AC as a Defender).

If he has a Dex mod of 4 then he should just wear light armor btw.

 

[samursus]

Here's a quick treatise on Fighters:

Fighters are usually defenders. In MMORPG terms they are Tanks. To keep the enemies attacking them rather than the other party members. They primarily do this through Marking and generally having more Hit Points than everyone else.

Beyond that, play style takes over:

Sword and Shield: High AC
Two-Handed Weapon: More damage per hit
Tempest: 2 weapon fighting; more damage from more attacks
Brawling: Unarmed grabs; some control aspects
Battlerager: lower AC & HPs, lots of Temporary Hit Points

 

[hcubed_]

First off welcome to ENWorld!!

The discrepancy from 18 vs 14 Armored vs Unarmored has to do with the fact that if the character is NOT wearing Heavy Armor you get to use your Dex OR Int Bonus to AC.

The cleric having a 17 is normal; the Chainmail he wears is only 1 AC less than Scale.

As for the Wizard, remember Staff of Defense only works vs 1 attack per battle.

Are you playing Players Handbook or Essentials characters? Cleric vs Cleric (Warpriest), Fighter vs Fighter(Slayer)?

There are differences.

Cleric(Warpriests) may have slightly better AC's than Clerics because they get Heavy and Light Shield proficiency.

Fighter (Slayers) are damage dealers, and protection is not their forte; Fighters CAN be damage dealers OR defenders. If you want to be a high Armor Class Defender you would want to be using a Heavy Shield perhaps (+2 to AC and Ref) and use a 1-handed weapon; maybe even taking Platemail proficiency Feat at level 1 (+8AC). This is the most obvious, there are many ways to build a Fighter who defends.

Hope that helps.

I think I figured it out. They get +1 for being level 3 as well. In the wizards case he gets plus 8 which I broke down thus: [half of level] + [leather armor] + [int modifier] + [staff of defence]

Being:
1 + 2 + 4 + 1 = 8

I checked his character sheet and he can add extra once per encounter equal to his CON(?)... I think... But it has a +1 to AC all the time. Apparently.

Being new to the game I didn't realise the DEX modifier is dropped wen wearing heavy armor. Makes sense though.

I think the fighter is confused as to her role. But I'll let them play how they want to rather than tell her she has to be the 'tank' of the group. To be honest, I think that she enjoys hurting monsters a little too much.

Oh, and we're playing straight fighter, straight cleric, straight wizard. Only as we're all new to the game and didn't really know the difference. There's also a monk and a rogue (thief) that seem to work very well. Especially the rogue (+9 or 10 to ranged & melee attack rolls wtf?).

 

[Aulirophile]

Oh, and we're playing straight fighter, straight cleric, straight wizard. Only as we're all new to the game and didn't really know the difference. There's also a monk and a rogue (thief) that seem to work very well. Especially the rogue (+9 or 10 to ranged & melee attack rolls wtf?).

Assuming an 18 after Racials any standard PC that attacks NADs will have +4 to hit at level 1, a weapon user will have +6 to hit at level 1 with a +2 proficiency weapon (+7 with a +3 proficiency weapon). AC on monsters is 2 points higher on average, so players will hit basically on the same number on the die regardless. Rogues (and Thieves) shtick is that they are hyper-accurate strikers, so they get another +1 on top of the fact that they usually use +3 proficiency weapons. At level 3, with zero optimizations, +9 is standard (+4 from stat, +1 from 1/2 level, +1 from class feature, +3 from either Dagger or Rapier). He should have +10 by now due to having a magic weapon actually, and if he took a 20 starting dex or expertise or nimble blade (+1 with CA) it'd actually be much higher (up to +15 with CA, meaning he hits even level monsters on a 2+).

That applies to most Strikers actually. Avengers get to roll twice per attack (mathematically equivalent to +5 to hit), Rangers get two attacks, Barbarians try to get +1 from charging all the time and they can do a lot more damage on a hit (sort of an all-or-nothing striker, but the "all" is bigger than most strikers). Sorcerer's attack multiple targets, ditto Monks, and Monks have auto-damage if they hit anyone with their multi-target powers.

TL;DR: Perfectly normal he has +9/10 to hit, and it is actually a lot lower then it could be.

 

[Ahrimon]

Tank isn't really the right term for DnD. Defenders don't have agro or anything. A defender gives the creatures incentive to attack him, but it's not forced too. And with creature count, don't expect to have all the creatures attacking the defender.

A defender marks a creature. That creature then has a -2 penalty to attack anyone other than the defender. Defenders also have a retrubution type effect if the creature chooses to attack anyone else. The fighter get's a free attack once per round, a paladin inflicts radiant damage, etc.

 

[mudlock]

I think I figured it out. They get +1 for being level 3 as well. [...] Especially the rogue (+9 or 10 to ranged & melee attack rolls wtf?).

+9 or 10 at 3rd level? Sounds about right. (+4 or 5 dex +3 dagger +1 for being a rogue with a dagger +1 for level.)

But if your players equate "doing lots of damage" with "effective character", then expect all the others to envy the rogue, the monk, and to a lesser extent (depending how it's built,) the fighter. You can help your wizard feel better by remembering to use minions (where area attacks are more useful), and your cleric by using elites and above-party-level monsters (when healing and leader buffs are more useful)... actually, if your defender doesn't understand their role, the cleric will be busy enough as it is