Armor Class vs. Damage Reduction - Your preference

[steenan]

I don't have a preference for armor as AC or armor as DR. DR fits some games better, AC fits others. And in some games, the best implementation of armor is adding to HPs, negating a single hit every combat or something else entirely.

For me, it's not really what armor does, but how it corresponds with the rest of the combat system.

 

[delericho]

This is something you essentially need to do once, in my experience. And, if the AP (armor penetration) doesn't outpace the DR, you just add it to damage. So if you did 1d10+8 (4 AP) against DR of 10, you'd essentially roll 1d10+2 (1d10+8+4-10).

That only works if both the AP and the DR are known. However many DMs (myself included) prefer not to reveal the exact capabilities of the monsters the PCs are facing - AC, hit points, etc (which would include armour-DR if I used it - indeed, it does include 'normal' DR for those monsters who have it!)

But if it works for you, that's great. As you say: Play what you like.

 

[stevelabny]

I prefer systems with a DR component because it gives more flavor to monster/armor types AND (most importantly, especially in the case of D&D) weapon types. Its sad when weapons are relegated to just damage numbers and range/melee and there's no real advantage to one over the other.

 

[JamesonCourage]

That only works if both the AP and the DR are known. However many DMs (myself included) prefer not to reveal the exact capabilities of the monsters the PCs are facing - AC, hit points, etc (which would include armour-DR if I used it - indeed, it does include 'normal' DR for those monsters who have it!)

That's true. My RPG has a way to find out such information: an Assess check. Without that, the math is left to me. And I can do the math really fast (via the method I showed you), so I'm not too worried about that. If the PCs want to find out AC, DR, HP, attack bonus, etc. of a creature, they only get that if they roll an Assess check. Otherwise, yeah, I'm with you. Again, though, that math works for me, so it's no biggie.

But if it works for you, that's great. As you say: Play what you like.

And if it doesn't work for you, that's cool, too. Because, yeah. That's how it goes sometimes As always, play what you like

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

My favorite RPG system has something resembling AC- called Defensive Combat Value (DCV)- and damage reduction in many forms.

So I say both.

 

[Obryn]

My favorite RPG system has something resembling AC- called Defensive Combat Value (DCV)- and damage reduction in many forms.

If you're talking Powers & Perils, you're talking my language.

-O

 

[dwayne]

I would say in a modern game DR works very well as a bullet vest or body armor does not work unless it is hit, so you can still suffer impact damage due to even with a vest you can break a rib and have some heavy bruising. Also with the modern d20 it had a defense bonus I always took this to represent your experience in life and verse the things you overcome you learn how to avoid or are just a bit smarted about not getting hit and defense in general. Using the D20 star wars vitality and wound system and armor as dr which makes all weapon damage increase by one step with the massive damage roll (I modified this so the DC is the damage done, makes it very dangerous and gritty, I ran my first game in my darkworld game ,[ a mix of grim, supernatural and angel buffy of a sort,] they split up and two of the PC found the vampires holding the other players sister in game and they just pulled up in front an a PC leaned out the window and yelled at the building cussing the vamps. So the one that was looking out who heard them drive up took aim on the van and when he did this the vamp just shot him with the Remington high powered rifle (3d10) in this and was way over his Mass damage roll so he rolled a save vers damage and failed, taking all hit points and putting him to -1 because the wounds damage was more than his wounds score he almost died as they rushed him to the hospital and will be out of action for at lest a two days as one person is a doctor who has made a lot of chemical substances which do help healing but even with this he still can not even get out of bed for a few days. this worked far better than I had thought until they went back and rammed the van through the front of the warehouse which broke the axle and jammed and bent the side door a few came out through the window and got shot up a bit with the vamps shotguns they exchanged fire and then more of the players came out and the one stated to do a prayer ritual and the other was shooting a flare gun into the shadow areas and on his second round hit one with a flare killing it. the one player who was out first go shot with two shot guns and climbed back into the van to get patched up by the doc.

 

[GMMichael]

Just weighing in quick -

I like both concepts - armor class and damage reduction - so I'm including both in my homebrew (well, internet-brew).

Armor class, or damage avoidance, I treat as a skill. A character with this skill knows how to dodge, roll with the punches, or shrug off damage. He doesn't necessarily need armor, which would actually slow him down.

Damage reduction is provided by armor. Hurting or killing someone wearing armor, but who can't dodge well, is just a matter of time.

In this system, a character has three life-saving options:
1) get really good at avoiding all damage,
2) go ahead and get hit but reduce the damage as much as possible,
3) do both!

 

[dwayne]

Just weighing in quick -

I like both concepts - armor class and damage reduction - so I'm including both in my homebrew (well, internet-brew).

Armor class, or damage avoidance, I treat as a skill. A character with this skill knows how to dodge, roll with the punches, or shrug off damage. He doesn't necessarily need armor, which would actually slow him down.

Damage reduction is provided by armor. Hurting or killing someone wearing armor, but who can't dodge well, is just a matter of time.

In this system, a character has three life-saving options:
1) get really good at avoiding all damage,
2) go ahead and get hit but reduce the damage as much as possible,
3) do both!

I can see were your going with this and its along the line of think I had as I just used what was around and tweaked it a bit

1) get really good at avoiding all damage,

In my version this what class bonus does for the most part as well as your dex bonus

2) go ahead and get hit but reduce the damage as much as possible,

and this is what armor does and natural DR as well

3) do both!

and you can use both

I have also thought about the Armor bonus and non- proficient bonus and was thinking it was a bit much so looking As I just use ac for DR in game I was thinking of if you are not proficient to allow you to have the DR but apply the armor check penalty to your AC as a penalty. That was you could wear the armor but due to you don't know how to wear it properly or are use to wearing it it cause issues with your movement to defend and dodge attacks.

 

[ExploderWizard]

My preference would be for whichever system served the overall game better. D&D is an abstract game with regard to combat. It does not capture the landing of each blow, each slight movement of the combatants. Static defenses and hit points that partially represent fighting skill serve the overall system intent very well.

I also enjoy the more simulationist feel of GURPS combat. Here the combat is not abstract. Every swing, block, parry, etc. is handled as it happens. Vitality does not scale with combat ability and armor provides DR. It is a completely different system for a game with a completely different feel.

I enjoy both combat systems and think they do a good job for the type of game they are a part of.