Armor reducing damage
- Thread starter Sammael99
- Start date
CuriousBard
First Post
I tried a system that kept the AC bonus for armor, but then also downgraded up to that same amount of incoming damage from regular damage to Subdual and from Subdual to nothing. I found that it had 3 results:
1). You now effectively had a 2pt damage system. Hpt and Subdual.
2). Combat was now softer, because it was more likely to fall unconscious than to fall dead or dying.
3). Regeneration became extra powerful since it treated almost all incoming damage as Subdual which was then downgraded to no damage by the creature's Natural armor bonus......in effect a DR. So creatures like Trolls would get a 7pt DR. Ouch!
We had the system for a little while but I got tired of having to track both sets of pts for all NPC's. So then we switched to something simpler.
Light armor has a DR of 0. Medium armor has a DR of 1. Heavy armor has a DR of 2. I figured this helped since there have been lots of complaints over the differences between Chainmail and Chain Shirts. With this rule, Chainmail would at least reduce incoming damage by 1pt.
This DR though serves for ALL incoming damage. Armor helps to insulate from fire, acid, etc. Even lightning will do a point or two less when facing the padding or leather undercoat of heavier, metal armor.
Realistic in all cases? Maybe not, but a simpler system.
1). You now effectively had a 2pt damage system. Hpt and Subdual.
2). Combat was now softer, because it was more likely to fall unconscious than to fall dead or dying.
3). Regeneration became extra powerful since it treated almost all incoming damage as Subdual which was then downgraded to no damage by the creature's Natural armor bonus......in effect a DR. So creatures like Trolls would get a 7pt DR. Ouch!
We had the system for a little while but I got tired of having to track both sets of pts for all NPC's. So then we switched to something simpler.
Light armor has a DR of 0. Medium armor has a DR of 1. Heavy armor has a DR of 2. I figured this helped since there have been lots of complaints over the differences between Chainmail and Chain Shirts. With this rule, Chainmail would at least reduce incoming damage by 1pt.
This DR though serves for ALL incoming damage. Armor helps to insulate from fire, acid, etc. Even lightning will do a point or two less when facing the padding or leather undercoat of heavier, metal armor.
Realistic in all cases? Maybe not, but a simpler system.
phillcalle
First Post
In my games, armor reduces weapon damage by an amount equal the armor bonus to AC divided by two, rounded down. Natural armor is treated the same way. However, I also keep the AC bonus that armor provides (I'm inspired by GURPS). The reason is that armor has been designed to both reduce damage and reduce hits.
The effect of this is the following:
1. Fights between well-equipped low level characters last longer.
2. Some monsters are a lot harder to kill, effectively raising their CR (dragons come to mind).
3. Some weapon/character combos are no longer as viable. For instance, a dagger wielding halfling rogue with a Strength of 10 is only an effective fighter if he sneak attacks or if he faces unarmored foes.
4. Monks are really screwed unless they are strong or unless you rule that they can bypass the armor's ability to reduce damage. This isn't as ridiculous as it sounds--see #5.
5. Grapple becomes a popular action because armor doesn't stop someone from twisting your body in odd ways.
6. Two-weapon fighting is less powerful and popular than it used to be (unless one is a rogue).
7. Power attack gets to be really popular.
8. Armor is really popular unless the PC really wants to be mobile.
I don't mind any of these changes, but you might.
I also admire (and might use) the option of having armor convert some amount of regular damage to subdual damage as Curious Bard mentioned.
The effect of this is the following:
1. Fights between well-equipped low level characters last longer.
2. Some monsters are a lot harder to kill, effectively raising their CR (dragons come to mind).
3. Some weapon/character combos are no longer as viable. For instance, a dagger wielding halfling rogue with a Strength of 10 is only an effective fighter if he sneak attacks or if he faces unarmored foes.
4. Monks are really screwed unless they are strong or unless you rule that they can bypass the armor's ability to reduce damage. This isn't as ridiculous as it sounds--see #5.
5. Grapple becomes a popular action because armor doesn't stop someone from twisting your body in odd ways.
6. Two-weapon fighting is less powerful and popular than it used to be (unless one is a rogue).
7. Power attack gets to be really popular.
8. Armor is really popular unless the PC really wants to be mobile.
I don't mind any of these changes, but you might.
I also admire (and might use) the option of having armor convert some amount of regular damage to subdual damage as Curious Bard mentioned.
My suggestion:
Hit Points = 10 + Fort/Con bonus
Defense = 10 + Ref/Dex bonus + Shield AC
DR = Armor AC
But, any hit that doesn't penetrate armor still does one point of subdual damage. (If you're willing to add one more complication, have only attacks that do more than half the DR cause such bruising damage.)
Hit Points = 10 + Fort/Con bonus
Defense = 10 + Ref/Dex bonus + Shield AC
DR = Armor AC
But, any hit that doesn't penetrate armor still does one point of subdual damage. (If you're willing to add one more complication, have only attacks that do more than half the DR cause such bruising damage.)
Jack Daniel
Legend
I've got a groovy little system in my signature. 
A'koss
Explorer
Something I recently cooked up...
I've been toying with some more comprehensive armor rules that factor in damage absorbsion (in addition to damage deflection) and most importantly - *high strength characters* and armor. It is ridiculous to think that a character in a completely flexible suit of armor is going to be impeded in any meaningful way if it weighs no more than normal clothes do to you or me. Plate armor may be an exception here as you do not have 100% mobility (but
still very good) and I think a minimum penalty might be warranted for such armors.
However, since this is extrapolated for my campaign, I've forgone the inclusion of heavy armors which are not practical on my world.
ARMOR AC Bonus DR
Padded +0 1/-
Leather +1 1/-
Studded Leather +2 1/-
Chain Shirt +3 1/-
Hide +1 2/-
Scale mail +2 2/-
Chainmail +3 2/-
Breastplate +3 3/-
SHIELDS (Shields only deflect damage)
Buckler +1
Shield, small, wooden +1
Shield, small, steel +1
Shield, large, wooden +2
Shield, large, steel +2
1. AC Bonus: Based on the ability of armor to deflect blows.
2. DR: Based on the ability of armor to absorb impact. Damage reduction applies to all weapons.
3. Magical armor: AC improves by 1 for every 2 "plusses", rounded up and DR increases by one for each plus. There also may be ways to fortify armor further by using exotic materials - eg. Adamantine.
4. Magical Shields: AC also improves by 1 for every 2 "plusses", rounded up.
For example:
n/m chainmail, AC +3, DR 2/-
+1 chainmail, AC +3, DR 3/-
+2 chainmail, AC +4, DR 4/-
+3 chainmail, AC +4, DR 5/-
+4 chainmail, AC +5, DR 6/-
+5 chainmail, AC +5, DR 7/-
Armor and Shields IMC would simply be denoted differently elimate the calculations.
ARMOR DEX Penalty
Padded -0
Leather -0
Studded Leather -1
Chain Shirt -1
Hide -2
Scale mail -2
Chainmail -3
Breastplate -2
SHIELDS
Buckler -0
Shield, small, wooden -0
Shield, small, steel -0
Shield, large, wooden -1
Shield, large, steel -1
1. DEX Penalty: This replaces the Max. Dex bonus. It is equal to 1/2 your total armor check penalty (rounded up) which means encumbrance is a factor as well. This penalty can be reduced and even eliminated with very strong characters.
2. Strong Characters and Armor: For every 4 points of Strength greater than 10, reduce the DEX penalties by 1 and Arcane Spell Failure by 5%. For every 2 points of Strength greater than 10, reduce the Armor Check penalties by 1.
If your adjusted Armor check penalty is between 0 and -2, you may move at full speed.
For example:
A 18 Strength Fighter in chainmail and carrying a large steel shield suffers a Dex Penalty of -2 and an Armor Check Penalty of -3. If his Strength were 20 his Armor Check Penalty would be low enough to allow him to move at his full rate.
He would have to possess a Strength of 26 to wear chainmail and carry a lg. steel shield without any Dex or Armor Check penalties and a Strength of 38 to wear it without any Arcane Spell Failure chance (overcoming the awkwardness). Essentially, wearing chainmail is like wearing normal clothes to someone of this strength.
A'koss.
I've been toying with some more comprehensive armor rules that factor in damage absorbsion (in addition to damage deflection) and most importantly - *high strength characters* and armor. It is ridiculous to think that a character in a completely flexible suit of armor is going to be impeded in any meaningful way if it weighs no more than normal clothes do to you or me. Plate armor may be an exception here as you do not have 100% mobility (but
still very good) and I think a minimum penalty might be warranted for such armors.
However, since this is extrapolated for my campaign, I've forgone the inclusion of heavy armors which are not practical on my world.
ARMOR AC Bonus DR
Padded +0 1/-
Leather +1 1/-
Studded Leather +2 1/-
Chain Shirt +3 1/-
Hide +1 2/-
Scale mail +2 2/-
Chainmail +3 2/-
Breastplate +3 3/-
SHIELDS (Shields only deflect damage)
Buckler +1
Shield, small, wooden +1
Shield, small, steel +1
Shield, large, wooden +2
Shield, large, steel +2
1. AC Bonus: Based on the ability of armor to deflect blows.
2. DR: Based on the ability of armor to absorb impact. Damage reduction applies to all weapons.
3. Magical armor: AC improves by 1 for every 2 "plusses", rounded up and DR increases by one for each plus. There also may be ways to fortify armor further by using exotic materials - eg. Adamantine.
4. Magical Shields: AC also improves by 1 for every 2 "plusses", rounded up.
For example:
n/m chainmail, AC +3, DR 2/-
+1 chainmail, AC +3, DR 3/-
+2 chainmail, AC +4, DR 4/-
+3 chainmail, AC +4, DR 5/-
+4 chainmail, AC +5, DR 6/-
+5 chainmail, AC +5, DR 7/-
Armor and Shields IMC would simply be denoted differently elimate the calculations.
ARMOR DEX Penalty
Padded -0
Leather -0
Studded Leather -1
Chain Shirt -1
Hide -2
Scale mail -2
Chainmail -3
Breastplate -2
SHIELDS
Buckler -0
Shield, small, wooden -0
Shield, small, steel -0
Shield, large, wooden -1
Shield, large, steel -1
1. DEX Penalty: This replaces the Max. Dex bonus. It is equal to 1/2 your total armor check penalty (rounded up) which means encumbrance is a factor as well. This penalty can be reduced and even eliminated with very strong characters.
2. Strong Characters and Armor: For every 4 points of Strength greater than 10, reduce the DEX penalties by 1 and Arcane Spell Failure by 5%. For every 2 points of Strength greater than 10, reduce the Armor Check penalties by 1.
If your adjusted Armor check penalty is between 0 and -2, you may move at full speed.
For example:
A 18 Strength Fighter in chainmail and carrying a large steel shield suffers a Dex Penalty of -2 and an Armor Check Penalty of -3. If his Strength were 20 his Armor Check Penalty would be low enough to allow him to move at his full rate.
He would have to possess a Strength of 26 to wear chainmail and carry a lg. steel shield without any Dex or Armor Check penalties and a Strength of 38 to wear it without any Arcane Spell Failure chance (overcoming the awkwardness). Essentially, wearing chainmail is like wearing normal clothes to someone of this strength.
A'koss.
whatisitgoodfor
First Post
Why do all of you say that shields only deflect and not reduce.
When I started on my own DR armor system, I had shields adding to AC instead of DR, but then I realized the error of my ways.
Shields help you roll with a blow as much as they let you deflect the blow, and should therefore add to DR.
When I started on my own DR armor system, I had shields adding to AC instead of DR, but then I realized the error of my ways.
Shields help you roll with a blow as much as they let you deflect the blow, and should therefore add to DR.
The system I used was like this.
Any Armor or Natural Armor bonus counted as DR of that amount. The AC bonus itself was discounted.
Dex was made to affect all To Hit rolls, not just Ranged ones.
Str still affected damage, when appropriate.
Some things I noticed while running this:
Touch Attacks really seemed to lose something.
Dex became more important.
Daggers, and other such small weapons, really were ineffective against the big armors.
Some monsters seemed to gain in power, such as Dragons.
Overall, did I think it was a good change? I thought it wasn't too bad. The game I utilized this rule set in ended prematurely when several players developed scheduling conflicts around the same time so I never really saw how it affected the higher level game.
Any Armor or Natural Armor bonus counted as DR of that amount. The AC bonus itself was discounted.
Dex was made to affect all To Hit rolls, not just Ranged ones.
Str still affected damage, when appropriate.
Some things I noticed while running this:
Touch Attacks really seemed to lose something.
Dex became more important.
Daggers, and other such small weapons, really were ineffective against the big armors.
Some monsters seemed to gain in power, such as Dragons.
Overall, did I think it was a good change? I thought it wasn't too bad. The game I utilized this rule set in ended prematurely when several players developed scheduling conflicts around the same time so I never really saw how it affected the higher level game.
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