Armor/Shield Spikes of Defence

[strongbow]

If someone puts armor/shield spikes of defence on their armor/shield, can they get the defending bonus to their AC?

Here is the Defending Enhancement from the DMG:

"A defender weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the sword's enhancment bonus to his AC as a special bonus that stacks with all others. As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon's enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the effect to AC lasts until his next turn."

Exactly what does "use" quantify? There are a few different possible meanings:
(1) As long as the character has the defending item equipped, he/she can decide on his/her turn how to allocate the bonus, but does not have to attack with it.
(2) The wielder can allocate the defending bonus from the spikes, but must attack with the spikes to potentially get a defending bonus to AC.
(3) The wielder can get a defending bonus from armor spikes all the time because they are equipped, but must choose whether a shield with armor spikes is considered a weapon. If the wielder considers the shield a weapon for the round, then the defending bonus applies, but the wielder loses the base AC bonus from the shield, and not the defending bonus.

 

[Crothian]

As long as you attack with the defending weapon, you can use part of it's bonus to help out AC.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's been clarified that you can't just be holding a defending shortsword in your off-hand to get the benefits of its ability.

You don't have to actually make an attack, but you do suffer TWF penalties on all your attacks - regardless of whether you actually swing the shortsword.

So for Armor Spikes, same deal - you can get the bonus to AC, as long as you take a -4 (-2 with TWF) to your primary attack.

For Spiked Shield, if you're using the Defending enhancement, then unless you have the Shield Expert feat, you don't get the Armor bonus of the shield to AC... plus you take TWF penalties.

----

Others may disagree with this interpretation, of course

-Hyp.

 

[]-[untGod]

Snorlle snortle...

Yes and no...

You can most definately put shield spikes on a shield and give tthem the defending property. You can also of course give armor spikes the defending quality.

The question of course is exactly what benefit you would derive from each.

Shield spike is explicitly clear. You can either weild it as a shield (and gain the full ac bonus) or as a weapon (receiving no ac bonus). For the spikes to be "weilded" the shield must be in weapon mode so you could derive an ac bonus either from the shield w/ any inherent enhancements OR from the defending spikes but at no time could you get benefit from both. So no AC 12 shield...though you could greater magic weapon the defending spikes to garner additional ac beyond the normal 2 it offers.

The armor is trickier...it states not so clearly that the armor spikes are treated as a light weapon when attacking...this begs the question of exactly what does attacking with armor spikes entail? The description makes it clear how they are handled when grappling but not so clear later when it indicated they can be used to make a standard (or even off hand) attack. Given the wording I would be torn on which way to rule it. Because it seems to indicate that the spikes are ONLY treated as a light weapon when attacking with them then I would rule that you must use one of your attacks with the spikes to derive any benefit from their defending ability. Note that is contrary to how defending reads since it is assumed to ALWAYS be on a weapon. The problem is you have a weapon that is ONLY treated as a weapon when attacking and is simply a pointy ornament the rest of the time.

So basically you can either have a shields AC or it's defending spikes AC but not both.

On armor I would say you had to attack with the spikes at least once a round so that it was counted as a weapon and as long as that requirement was met you could add the defending quality of the spikes to your AC as well as the inherent AC of the armor.

 

[dead_radish]

I think that it's best summed up by the statement in the FAQ that you can't get the defending bonus without taking the TWF penalties. So any time you want to "activate" the defending, you have to take twf penalties (and have the option of using the attack you're granted). You would also lose any shield ac unless you have the Shield Expert feat (which you damned well better have if you have a spiked shield).

It's fairly cut n' dried to me - armor spikes are just the same - twf penalties, add the bonus.

 

[Caliban]

One minor note:

Technically you can't enchant the shield spikes seperately from the shield itself. Shield spikes just change the shield into a Spiked Shield, which does 1d6 Piercing instead of 1d4 Bludgeoning (if you are using a Large Shield). They aren't seperate from the Shield, they are part of the shield.

Any shield can recieve weapon enhancements, whether or not it has spikes. So shield spikes don't really have anything to do with the "Defending shield" discussion.

Armor Spikes on the other hand, ARE enchanted seperately from the armor, and thus would have to be made Masterwork seperately from the armor.

This is a quirk of the system, mainly resulting from the fact that a shield can be used as a weapon (and can thus receive weapon enhancements), but a set of armor cannot be used as a weapon, and thus cannot receive weapon enhancements.