Armor Spikes: Unpractical?

[Numion]

So, in the case of Redgar, he has to take off his armor before climbing a ladder, fighting something that flies or runs on the ceiling or before moving through tight spaces.

That doesn't sound practical to me.

What pic of Redgar do you mean? The fighter pic in PHB doesn't have spikes that would hinder movement. The equipment section pic has spikes that point 45 degrees outside; hardly something that would impale Redgar, considering the shoulder plates are on top of his arm, not attached to it.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Regdar. That's R-E-G-D-A-R people! (Can't stand the iconic myself, but please get the name right. )

 

[Gothmog]

Nawh mayne, just saying that 7 years of edition wars never produced an argument against armor spikes that went beyond "that's not what we've seen in medieval times".

News for ya bub, D&D is not like medieval times. We should think beyond "D&D == medieval with magic" set of mind. Humanity has always been excellent in tooling right tools for the right job. Why would they be left behind in this instance, where armor spikes would clearly give them advantage in combat? Because it goes against 1E art? Please..

Ok, I can give you several good reasons armor spikes are bad ideas, based on kinesthetics and kinesiology.

#1 While small armor spikes on the straight portions of the arms, legs, and torso might be protective against grapplers, they are also grossly inconvenient. Imagine being driven back by a blow into a wooden wall when you're wearing spiked armor on your torso and limbs. Now, what might have otherwise been a jarring blow from staggering into the wall is suddenly life-threatening because you've impaled your armor spikes into the wall. While you're trying to free yourself, your opponent is raining blows down on your head and body pretty much unopposed.

#2 Whoever said it above was absolutely correct- armor is designed to deflect the incoming attack's force, not stop it. By adding armor spikes, you redirect the tangential movement of the weapon back into the armor, increasing the amount of impact the weapon causes, and reducing the effectiveness of the armor. A good example of this is found in why not many cultures used horned helmets. If a blow landed on the end of the horn of the helmet, it could act as a lever, and cause enough torque to snap someone's neck. While horned helmets look cool, they are hugely impractical.

#3 Your sense of proprioception (where your body is in space around you) would be completely thrown off with armor spikes. In addtion to the example I gave in #1, you'd be forever bumping into objects, snagging them on your limbs, and generally impeding your movement because the spikes aren't a living part of your body. Yes, spikes work for porcupines because they are flexible. They work for ankylosaurus becasue they are SHORT. Pufferfish have spikes that expand out only when danger threatens them so they can inject their attacker with tetrodotoxin. For a human, who wasn't born with spikes and has no way to tell where they are in relation to a limb, they would be a hassle at the least, and a deadly hazard at worst.

#4 The whole kineseological aspect of movement would be a bigger danger to the wearer than the grappler. Basically, putting spikes on joints is more likely to harm the wearer than anyone else. As Whizbang said, putting armor spikes on the shoulders (or knees, or hips, or elbows, etc) impedes your range of motion, and with Regdar, if he raised his arm too quickly trying to defend himself, he'd lacerate his face, causing him to bleed (maybe even into his eyes causing blindness) and possibly break bones from self-inflicted injuries. In addition, if a spike is struck by a blow, not only could the torque it generates dislocate or break a limb, but if the spike was bent it might prevent movement of the appendage, further putting the wearer at risk. Sounds pretty dumb to put armor spikes on joints to me.


Now, I can hear the response before I even post this "but you don't know kinesthetics and kinesiology even apply in the D&D world." Well, yes I do. If we assume that a sword cuts because a sharpened edge exposes less surface area of the weapon during a blow so greater pressure is exerted in a smaller space for the purposes of cutting, or of the recoil of a released bowstring launches an arrow, then kinesthetics and kinesiology from reality apply too. While D&D isn't supposed to be realistic, lets use some common sense. Saying that "D&D isn't supposed to be realistic" to dismiss any arguements against the current incarnation of D&D is a strawman arguement and has little validity. While I think armor spikes look stupid from an aesthetic point of view (too edgy and dungeonpunky), in reality they weren't used much for battle because they were so impractical and deadly to the wearer.

 

[Nyeshet]

Spiked armor really only has two problems:

1) By their placement, spikes can readily hinder movement of the joints. If the spikes are notable in size and number, they may even limit movement due to the increase in weight from the extra metal needed to produce and support the spikes.

2) Armor is meant to protect in part by absorbing the shock of the hit and in part by deflecting the hit, thus lessening the force of the attack. The latter is decreased and potentially even reversed by spikes, as a blade deflecting across the armor may - upon hitting a spike - instead then be diverted into the armor, allowing and perhaps even enhancing damage from a strike rather than diverting / preventing it. (At least in RL; in the game the mechanics of armor towards AC are rather odd, although the suggestion of armor as DR would work well in this direction.)


So long as those two problems are dealt with (via careful placement and limitations upon size and number of spikes and supporting structures) the issue of armor spikes is minor.


Really, when it comes to armor in the game, I have more issues with the depictions of the iconics and other representations of the NPCs of the game. The sorcerer iconic, for instance, has leather armor that only covers one side of his body and seems mostly made of straps and buckles. :\

Some other depictions of NPCs are even odder.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Really, when it comes to armor in the game, I have more issues with the depictions of the iconics and other representations of the NPCs of the game. The sorcerer iconic, for instance, has leather armor that only covers one side of his body and seems mostly made of straps and buckles. :\

Years ago, when hair metal was at its height, my dad saw a video for Skid Row, featuring lead singer Sebastian Bach. At this point, pretty boy Bach had a pierced eyebrow (very edgy for the late 1980s/early 1990s!) and a pierced nose and had a long dangling chain connecting them.

"Is he supposed to be tough?" my dad asked, watching a video with Bach posing and punching at the camera and the like.

"Well, yeah, look at the piercings."

"If he was really tough, he would be missing a nostril and part of an eyebrow. First fight he was in, someone would rip that chain right out of his face."

Which sort of sums up my problem with Hennet Lovestobuckle. There's cool and practical and there's cool and impractical. I figure Hennet mostly hangs around at the local S&M tavern, looking cool, and not actually doing any adventuring. Those pretty tattoos around his nipples would get all scarred up and I don't want to think about what would happen to all of those buckles -- he certainly seems like he's one heat metal spell away from certain death.

 

[Celebrim]

I've got no problem with the existence of armor spikes, per se, any more than I have a problem with a spiked chain. The problem that I have is that the mechanics don't really deal with the complexity of the item. Until the mechanics can really make spiked armor seem like a serious trade off, I'd rather pretend that that it doesn't exist.

 

[The Shaman]

Armor spikes are more inspired by the Lambton Wurm than by aesthetics. ant they might be useful against attacks by natural weapons. But against manufactured weapons they would catch blows that would otherwise glance off, you'd be catching the full force of attacks that otherwise would slide past you. This is also the reason people stopped sculpting bulging pectoral muscles onto breastplates, and why horned helmets were pretty much exclusively ceremonial.

Da truf.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

NilesB, Gothmog- while what you say about the physics of armor in the RW is absolutely true, in a fantasy realm with as many big predators (esp. grapplers & engulfers) as the D&D-verse, it would probably be the short-lived warrior who didn't at least have a set of spiked armor as a backup.

 

[green slime]

Hell, plenty of people living in the nastiest, poisonous vermin-infested holes on Earth didn't even wear much in the way of clothes or serious shoes.

Probably has more to do with the level of poverty, than mere comfort. People with cash generally don't live in nasty, vermin-infested holes.

Even today, you see examples of this, when plenty of cops still choose not to wear bulletproof vests on duty. (despite the fact they know they're highly effective at saving lives)

Also has something to do with the frequency with which an individual gets shot at. I'd hazard a guess that if every police officer ("cops"), were on the receiving end of hostile fire every day, then a whole lot more of them would be wearing vests, or there would be a whole lot fewer "cops".

 

[Sejs]

And by D&D logic, armor spikes don't do enough damage to the attacker to prevent a giant or a dire tiger from killing the wearer. At best, they'll just make whatever is eating you angry.

Actually, against an animal with appropriate animal-level intelligence, they do precicely enough damage to prevent the predator from killing the wearer.

Unless the predator is otherwise motivated: protecting territory, young, starving, etc - it sends a very clear message: Ow. My food is hurting me. Food doesn't do that. Food is supposed to run away from me, then die, then taste good. This food is poking me and making me hurt and bleed. This food is presenting a threat. It does not fall into the Way Things Should Be, therefore I am confused and scared. Screw this noise, this food isn't worth it, I'm going to find an easier meal.