Armoured MMA

[jian]

Honestly, if this takes off and everyone learns that hitting someone in proper plate armour with a sword achieves more or less nothing unless you’re going for the weak points specifically, I’ll be pretty happy. Hopefully you’d see much fewer mooks in plate in fantasy video games because they’d be so darn hard to kill.

 

[Morrus]

Don't get me started on sabre fighting techniques in supposed medieval battle scenes.

And legal processes in court scenes, and military procedures in war films, and physics in space scenes, and not to mention the depictions of police, medical institutions, hackers and computers, historical dramas, and, well, everything that TV and film depicts. Accuracy and entertainment are spelled differently for a reason!

 

[Truename]

Stupid question incoming; is this what real combat would look like? Are they holding back at all? It looks more like hack n slash with no stabby stabby.

The announcers talk about “points” being forbidden for safety reasons. I assume that means stabby stabby is against the rules.

 

[Mad_Jack]

What was it like? Did you feel the blows? I bet the armor really starts to weigh you down.

A way to get some vague understanding of what getting hit in armor is like:
Find a small piece of something rigid like plywood or sheet metal...
Sit down and place your folded winter coat over your knees with the rigid piece on top of it, held down firmly...
Give it a few easy whacks with a metal pipe or tire iron (something about 2-3 lbs. weight), then gradually start hitting it a little bit harder each time. (Try not to hit your other hand, lol.)

Rigid armor is designed to prevent you being cut and to redistribute the force of a blow over a larger area to lessen the damage to the point of contact... But you're still getting hit with a metal stick.
In a fight between two heavily armored opponents, knowing how to efficiently beat someone to death inside their own armor was often the key to winning.

 

[Ryujin]

A way to get some vague understanding of what getting hit in armor is like:
Find a small piece of something rigid like plywood or sheet metal...
Sit down and place your folded winter coat over your knees with the rigid piece on top of it, held down firmly...
Give it a few easy whacks with a metal pipe or tire iron (something about 2-3 lbs. weight), then gradually start hitting it a little bit harder each time. (Try not to hit your other hand, lol.)

Rigid armor is designed to prevent you being cut and to redistribute the force of a blow over a larger area to lessen the damage to the point of contact... But you're still getting hit with a metal stick.
In a fight between two heavily armored opponents, knowing how to efficiently beat someone to death inside their own armor was often the key to winning.

Or use the weapon in hand only long enough to beat him to the ground, or forget it and wrestle the other guy down, then drive a point with your full weight behind it under the visor, under the arm, or between the legs. The reason why a Rondel Dagger has a big, flat disk on the hilt.

 

[darjr]

It’s modeled after the medieval sport fighters would use to compete to show off and hopefully get hired for real combat.

For instance stabbing isn’t allowed.

In the specific melees I’m mostly fighting in a takedown takes you out of the fight.

Which is different than above or “pro-fights” were you get some time to pummel or strike the downed apponent.

People are striking to get you out. “Pain Compliance” is what it’s called. I’ve gotten bad bruises and what felt like broken ribs though my brigadine. Getting hit in the hands is extremely unpleasant.

Broken bones do happen.

I’ve just started and am no expert by a long mile.

 

[darjr]

I’ve been invited to fight at Carolina Carnage if anyone is interested and will be in the area.

Carolina Carnage - Palmetto Knights

2026 is taking Carnage has broken our record 40+ teams will be competing this year The Palmetto Knights present: Carolina Carnage FEST buy your ticket here In addition to the Largest Buhurt Event in the Western Hemisphere, we are hosting the North American Conference Championships. Next up we...

palmettoknights.com

 

[Morrus]

It does occur to me--and I have no experience or insight into this but maybe @darjr can provide some--in a real fight between two knights back in the day, if swords are so useless, why would they bother with swords at all? Why wouldn't one just rugby tackle the other, and then immediately stab him with a dagger? I figure there must be more nuance to it beyond 'swords are pretty much useless against armour'. The sword has a function, presumably, beyond beating ineffectually against a tin can for 20 minutes until they get tired and fall over?

 

[darjr]

It does occur to me--and I have no experience or insight into this but maybe @darjr can provide some--in a real fight between two knights back in the day, if swords are so useless, why would they bother with swords at all? Why wouldn't one just rugby tackle the other, and then immediately stab him with a dagger? I figure there must be more nuance to it beyond 'swords are pretty much useless against armour'. The sword has a function, presumably, beyond beating ineffectually against a tin can for 20 minutes until they get tired and fall over?

The rules of Buhurt I think show some of it, by whats restricted.

Sharp weapons and stabbing are not allowed. Certain areas are not legal for strikes, as well as holding any blade, no half-blading. No spikes are allowed and small headed hammers either.

And everyone is in armor. I imagine in a deadly medieval fight a lot of armored folks would be tough for lesser armored fighters to deal with.

Finally I do think takedowns were absolutely part of deadly combat.

 

[Ryujin]

It does occur to me--and I have no experience or insight into this but maybe @darjr can provide some--in a real fight between two knights back in the day, if swords are so useless, why would they bother with swords at all? Why wouldn't one just rugby tackle the other, and then immediately stab him with a dagger? I figure there must be more nuance to it beyond 'swords are pretty much useless against armour'. The sword has a function, presumably, beyond beating ineffectually against a tin can for 20 minutes until they get tired and fall over?

The sword wasn't a primary weapon, for a fully plate armoured knight. It was generally a backup to a primary like a polearm. (A whack on the head from a poleaxe is still going to take someone out, if only from concussion.) It would work well on lesser armoured opponents and wasn't completely useless on a fully armoured opponent. By "half-swording" you could grab the blade halfway, making it possible to better control the tip to get into spaces in the armour. It also provided leverage for wrestling an armoured opponent to the ground, where a dagger or half-sworded sword could get at something vital.