D&D 5E Array v 4d6: Punishment? Or overlooked data

[Hrrunstar]

I just rolled 4d6 drop the lowest and got...

12, 11, 11, 13, 11, 13.

Ugh. Now as the DM would you let me re-roll, or make me suffer with the most boring stat array ever for the next year in your campaign?

Mine was 13, 13, 11, 11, 11, 10 still works as a character, so my DM's would not allow a re-roll.

 

[DaveDash]

Mine was 13, 13, 11, 11, 11, 10 still works as a character, so my DM's would not allow a re-roll.

A friend of mine just rolled 12.11.13.11.12.10.

We'd have the best party ever.

I want to be the commoner! What will you play, the guard? Maybe a tavern wench? Or how about a really awesome baker? We can watch real adventurers who opted for point buy to come through the tavern, while we dream of another life. Alas.

 

[Hrrunstar]

A friend of mine just rolled 12.11.13.11.12.10.

We'd have the best party ever.

I want to be the commoner! What will you play, the guard? Maybe a tavern wench? Or how about a really awesome baker? We can watch real adventurers who opted for point buy to come through the tavern, while we dream of another life. Alas.

Ah, yes, if only the option to point buy had existed for me, I would not have rolled...so, alas, is right. He will make an okay half-elven sorcerer entertainer.

 

[Crothian]

Suppose this is so, I don't see how you increase the fairness/balance by making everyone have the exact same stats. Because a 16 STR is more useful for some PCs than others also. (As noted above, it is more useful for fighters than for wizards.)

That's up to the player to decide to pick a class that works for the attributes he has. It would be no different for a player that rolled a 16 strength and still went with a wizard. It is fair because all the players start with the exact same attributes. It is up to them to pick a race and class.

 

[Crothian]

I've said this before. For those who die roll pc's, audit the characters in your current group. Odds say that the average of those characters should be the same as point buy since sometimes you roll high and sometimes low.

But, I'll bet that nearly every die rolled group averages above (and possibly well above) point buy value.

This doesn't work because point buy only allows for stats between 8-15. 3 of 5 PCs in my group rolled a stat higher then 15, and 4 out of the f rolled something lower then 8. One guy is playing a mountain dwarf with a 5 Dexterity.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Eh.

Using 4d6 drop lowest, rolled in order, I had a fun time playing 3Ed human Ftr/Th Johnny Bones: Str15 Dex15 Con13 Int12 Wis8 Cha6. But while his stats gave me bonuses and penalties, it was the RP aspects of the character that made him stand out...for me AND the other players at the table.

He was extremely effective at his job, but he was reckless and a boorish thug & bully. He caused interparty friction- favorite victim, the scrawny Mage- and sometimes got the party in trouble. It was only the fact that he was an efficient killer and had a nose for secrets that the party kept him on.

And even as a killer, he was flawed. With the exception of knowing he needed to maneuver to get his backstabs in, his tactics were pretty much limited to charge in and kill or run for the hills.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

so I said it before and I will say it again... what is the matter with saying your not having fun if you are really not having fun...

people keep arguing your sour grapes or a bad sport, but at the end of the day, if I'm not having fun Why can't I just say so??


by the way you know what the worst game I ever played with rolling stats was... the one where I had 4 17's and 2 15's in 2e pre stat adjust.... I was playing a ranger with spell fire that back story was a farmer who got a 'gift' and was on the run. I didn't even want to be an adventurer just a farmer, but the bad guys wanted me for my spellfire. I put 3 17's in my physical stats, and 1 in my cha, then the 15's were int and wis. The next luckiest player was our elven fighter/mage with a 15 in and 14 dex and everything else 11 or less. at level 7 (we started at 3rd) the DM had me be befriended by blackstaff (well we all were in waterdeep at that point) and wanted us to take a year off to stay there in game... so my friend convinced me to duil into wizard... boy was that a mistake. The idea was I would give up my armor and thac0 and not dominate the game so much... but by 4 games later I had made it to level 7 wizard (lots of combat xp and not just finding spell books but learning spells from the other wizard in group made me get extra xp) I was a 7/7 and the fighter mage was an 7/8 and I was way surpassing him again... that game I finaly retired the character and the whole game soed... to this day I still get jokeingly called 'the one man party'

I don't want to be more OR less powerful. It's why in 3.5 we had baned classes out right (we mostly played with bo9s classes and complete book classes) so we could balance warlock and warmage with warblade in a way wizard and sorcerer and fighter never were...

it took us 2 campaigns into 4e to learn that we preferred to use pointbuy...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

so I said it before and I will say it again... what is the matter with saying your not having fun if you are really not having fun...

people keep arguing your sour grapes or a bad sport, but at the end of the day, if I'm not having fun Why can't I just say so??

I think it matters to people- some people, at least- as to WHY others at the table are not having fun.

If you're not having fun because the campaign is a mess, or the system doesn't support your favored playstyle or PC concepts or what have you, those are often rectifiable.

If, OTOH, your fun is being diminished in part or wholly because of the good fortune of others at the table, that is a problem with deeper roots that some may not feel like dealing with.

 

[Celtavian]

A friend of mine just rolled 12.11.13.11.12.10.

We'd have the best party ever.

I want to be the commoner! What will you play, the guard? Maybe a tavern wench? Or how about a really awesome baker? We can watch real adventurers who opted for point buy to come through the tavern, while we dream of another life. Alas.

A DM could build an adventure around both. Weren't the hobbits in Lord of the Rings basically common folk?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think it matters to people- some people, at least- as to WHY others at the table are not having fun.

If you're not having fun because the campaign is a mess, or the system doesn't support your favored playstyle or PC concepts or what have you, those are often rectifiable.

If, OTOH, your fun is being diminished in part or wholly because of the good fortune of others at the table, that is a problem with deeper roots that some may not feel like dealing with.

this is what I don't under stand at all, what difference does it make WHY I am not having fun....

lets use a different game as an example.


I play darts, I am very good (I used to be on a league and play regularly.) One of the best reasons I am really good is I don't often drink, and most times we play in bars. My friends Ross and Kim like to play darts but are not as good as I am at (and kim drinks A lot). SO if we are at the bar, some what regularly I will play and stand farther back then they are, and let them re throw a few misses (especially as the night goes on with kim) I COULD stand at the same line as them and enforce the rules evenly, and beat them 9 out of 10 times, or I could stand 1.5 times farther back, not try so hard and have it be pretty even... the difference is the second way we are all playing as friends...

a second example... running.

I am a fat out of shape man. My last girlfriend was hugely into running, and so is one of my best friends. I some what often (maybe once ever 5-6 weeks) run with my friend kurt. He could lap me no problem on the track. In fact everyonce in a while when he feels like it he will prove it... but most times, he lightly jogs and I run and we talk at my pace... When Amy wanted to go running, it was no fun, she would blow past me and lap me and make jokes (to the point that when we saw captain America winter soldier I told her how annoyed falcon must get at 'on your left'). I found that I could do 10+ laps with kurt talking, but most times gave up with amy after 1 lap... and felt worse.

now all three of those exmples are "hey one person is doing better then the other" in two of them we found ways to compansait and in one we didn't... the one we didn't is the one it wasn't fun.


so back to D&D...

lets say Kurt, Ross, John and I sit down to play D&D and my roommate is running the game (he likes rolling stats) we use his default rules (yes this is the real rule) roll 4d6 drop the lowest generate 6 numbers per colume make 3 colums then take the one you want most.

SO we decide to be pretty boreing, and just take the basic fighter/wizard/thief/cleric roles... he starts us at level 3

Kurt goes fighter but has a bad luck streak, his best roll is a 17, but it comes with a 3 and a 5 so he doesn't want that set, and goes with the set that has the second best stat in it, so he makes his level 3 battle master fighter with (after half elf stat increase) 14 str 14 dex 13 con 11 int 12 wis 9 cha...

Ross goes for the theif end and has his normal bad luck but not as bad as kurt, he is human (+1 every stat) and ends up with his Assassin rogue 11 str 16 dex 13 con 13 int 12 wis 14 cha

Me and jon rock paper sisior for who gets to be the wizard, and he wins, then he rolls amazing stats, his Dwarf Abjur ends up with 15 str 11 dex 16 con 18 int 14 wis 11 cha

my cleric isn't too bad or too great, I go drow elf refluffed for albino and end up with 11 str 16 dex 14 con 11 int 17 wis and 14 cha, I go for a dex based weapon...

so lets look at these rolls
11 str 16 dex 14 con 11 int 17 wis 14 cha 10pts of stat mod
15 str 11 dex 16 con 18 int 14 wis 11 cha 11pts of stat mod
11 str 16 dex 13 con 13 int 12 wis 14 cha 08pts of stat mod
14 str 14 dex 13 con 11 int 12 wis 9 cha 05pts of stat mod

look at how lopsided that is, it is possible (especially since we outlined roles to begin with) that we could have a great game, but if the player who has half the stat mod of half the group says "Hey, this isn't fun for me, my fighter is less strong and less healthy then the wizard, and less int, wis, and cha then the whole party..." why is that his fault? I mean really

in this scenero if the wizard picked up prof in a weapin, he could make a better fighter...


now that was made up, but lets go with a real one (same group and DM)

our wizard in a 5e playtest rolling got hugh stats, then rolled almost max for hp... when compaired to the fighter here is what it looked like

wizard 17 AC 34hp +7 to hit 1d6+3 damage had spells and a familiar
fighter 17 AC 26hp +6 to hit 1d8+2 damage had action surge, second wind and a 19+ crit range