D&D 5E Array v 4d6: Punishment? Or overlooked data

[Sunseeker]

For me standard array/point buy have several advantages over rolling stats and few drawbacks.

1. Players can make their characters without DM supervision (I trust my players, but if they rolled their stats at home, they would still have to run it by me, whether they could reroll a particularly bad set of stats).

I do really agree with this point. I prefer not to bog down table time with rolling up characters (replacements or initial ones) and its really easy to know a player isn't trying to cheat by building their PC at home when you firmly say "Array only".

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

But what does "If all these posters are so serious about being openminded and fair in their pro-rolling views, then there should be nothing wrong with the player holding back agreement to see how the chargen plays out in this group" mean? What's "holding back agreement" here?

"Hold back agreement" simply means agreeing to nothing. "Let me see how you guys build your characters." Is there anything wrong with that? Is it really necessary for me to sign something in blood at the outset?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I do really agree with this point. I prefer not to bog down table time with rolling up characters (replacements or initial ones) and its really easy to know a player isn't trying to cheat by building their PC at home when you firmly say "Array only".

I agree that this is an advantage of point buy. I don't agree that it's a large advantage though since it only takes my DM a minute to roll up a set of stats for me, and when I DM it only takes me thirty seconds to go to http://www.brockjones.com/dieroller/dice.htm, hit the Roll button, and paste in the results. Like this:

1 2 3 4 5 6 Total
Roll 13 15 17 11 17 17 90
Bonus +1 +2 +3 +0 +3 +3 +12

(Wow, that is a fantastic set of rolls. Too bad it's not a real PC...)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

-never mind-

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

To borrow the same basic construction:

For me rolling stats has several advantages over point buying stats and few drawbacks.

1. Players can discover their characters which promotes spontaneity and helps players who develop ruts work their way out of them.
2. It starts classes with different degrees of attribute dependence on a more equal footing because there is no compensated stat dumping to boost single-attribute classes.
3. It might give a lucky player a little bit of an advantage from time to time but this isn't a detraction from the other PCs - it's an enhancement of the party as a whole.

As a DM I always use stat rolling and that is non-negotiable. As a player I also prefer it, but I wouldn't walk from a game that required point buy stats.

Lastly, I do find it quite offensive when people try to suggest that the way I prefer my D&D is badwrongfun or that it is unfair to have variations in characters' ability scores. Just because some PCs are a few points better in their check modifiers, doesn't mean they have to rule everything. I wouldn't want to base my fun on how successful another players is, and seeing some variations in mechanical success doesn't make it any less true D&D.

Those are all true too and clearly shows that both ways have their pros and cons. I think my main issue with the times I have played with rolled stats (both as player and DM) has been that it was normal to reroll bad arrays, but it wasn't really clear what constituted a bad array. Did you get to reroll 14, 14, 13, 10, 9, 3 or where were the undefined line that gave you a second chance. If we had used one set of rolls, no rerolls, I could see the charm in rolling stats (especially if they had to be placed as rolled), but if it dependent on who is best to argue for a reroll, it is less fun.

Another issue for me is, that very low stats give problems with roleplaying. Why would anyone hang around a guy with CHA 4 or INT 5 for very long (even if he hits like a truck)?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

No.

I would ask the players that did make their characters if they liked them and were happy with their results. I'm not going to give one person special treatment so I need to make sure everyone else is happy and gets the same offer as player A. Then I'd tell player A, and anyone else that might be interested in it, that if he wants he can have the average scores of the created characters and assign them as he wishes.

so your game would run exactly like mine... what are you argueing then?

 

[Crothian]

so your game would run exactly like mine... what are you argueing then?

I like to roll attributes

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

1. Players can discover their characters which promotes spontaneity and helps players who develop ruts work their way out of them.
2. It starts classes with different degrees of attribute dependence on a more equal footing because there is no compensated stat dumping to boost single-attribute classes.

#1 makes sense to me.

#2 is true...except when the opposite is true. It depends a lot on the approach of the particular player to chargen. "Wow. Here is my chance to play a 3e Monk." "Ugh. My character concept really said Paladin, but I guess that is hopeless now."

 

[Crothian]

"Hold back agreement" simply means agreeing to nothing. "Let me see how you guys build your characters." Is there anything wrong with that? Is it really necessary for me to sign something in blood at the outset?

What it sounds like to me is you are asking everyone else to play by one set of rules and you by a different set. Everyone else will be rolling their characters but you hang back and see what way will be the most advantageous to you. For these games I like everyone to operate under the same set of rules what ever they might be.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Another issue for me is, that very low stats give problems with roleplaying. Why would anyone hang around a guy with CHA 4 or INT 5 for very long (even if he hits like a truck)?

Depends on how those stats are roleplayed. People loved Bear (the Ftr with all 6s in mental stats).