Ars Magic 5th edition

Crothian said:
CAn you go into the troupe style of play more? Does it require multiple characters per player? And how does it encxourage the second hand over the first hand perspective?
The idea is that each player has one magus PC and one companion (the companion is a companion to the covenant as a whole, not to the same player's magus), plus that there are a bunch of "grogs" (redshirts :) )that are shared by everyone. You only play one PC at a time though - if the "adventure" calls for your Bjornaer wilderness-mage to go out and do something, your city-bred Companion stays home (it's recommended that you make your companion and magus rather different from one another, so they'd logically have little reason to adventure together). In addition, the GMing (or "storyteller") role is supposed to be shared by the players, though I think that's far less common than multiple characters.
 

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As I heard it, Tweet and Rein*hagen designed Ars Magica in part as a reaction to the party structure dictated by D&D®. They set out to make the magic user the most powerful member, and made the rest of each group support. They also put a mechanism in place to keep wizards from taking over the world Something they'd be tempted to try otherwise.

Since then it's gone through a few iterations, but the core has pretty much stayed the same.

BTW, the stat modifier system used in D&D® 3e pretty much comes from Ars Magica 3e, and that came out of an exchange Tweet and I had in Alarums and Excursions back when AM was being revised for Wizards.
 


Crothian said:
How's the setting?

It's a mythic Europe setting, set in the 13th century. Uses a lot of real world history elements. There are supplements that take it beyond Europe as well.

I don't play the game but I use the Ars Magica Russia supplement (The Dragon and the Bear) for inspiration for Slavic themes in D&D. It's choc full of history, has several maps of (real) Russian towns, details a pre-Christion slavic pantheon (I'm not sure about the main game but the Russia version makes a lot of of the CHristian/Pagan tensions), and has descriptions of several Slavic-themed magic items.
 
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Looks like a lot of the questions have been answered here...

If you are interested in a "test drive", the previous edition (4th) is still available as a free pdf:

http://www.atlas-games.com/arsmagica/index.html

The other advantage is that a lot of the supplements show up on eBay regularly, often quite cheap.

Some people find at first keeping track of two characters complicated, but after a while most folks love it. And the grogs are just plain fun -- essentially you get to run mooks, so they tend to be pretty broadly defined (and broadly played).

While the setting is "realistic", it can be as real or fantastical as your particular group enjoys. And if you don't like the Mythic Europe feel, or find it constraining, it is easy enough to port the mechanics into a newer setting -- my first campaign of this I ran in Harn (I've been playing since the 2nd edition, about 15 years ago).

There is a very active web-presence for the game, but it is sometimes harder to find gamers, as the game is not as well known as others. OTOH, this game eventually spun off the group who started White Wolf (who also published the game for a while), so you can hook some people simply through that connection.

Anyone interested in knowing more about the game is free to contact me off-board. :)
 

Wombat said:
Anyone interested in knowing more about the game is free to contact me off-board. :)

When they announced they were giving away the 4th edition version for free I got a copy then and looked through it but while I liked the book I just didn't know enough about it nor had any one I gamed with played it. I'm obviously more then willing to learn more about it and I would contact you off board but that's not possible. E-mail addresses are not listed and only Community Supporters can get PMs
 

Crothian, I have some old articles from White Wolf (the magazine) that discuss troupe style play well, and will see if I can dig up some relevant excerpts. In general, though the idea is that as a group of players you create four main groups of characters:

  • the covenant, your group of PCs' over-arching group-identity
  • your magus (or equivalent), which is your main wizard PC (most starting wizards in Ars Magica could take an entire party of 10th level D&D characters on and win---they're the main focus of the game, and are levelled to mimic the epic abilities of Merlin, Circe, and other legendary magi)
  • your companion, who is the equivalent to a valued henchman for another PC's magus character
  • and several grogs, who are mooks with names, and are shared by all players, and played by all players

Adventures occur at the rate of 1-3 per calendar year. 1-2 wizards lead the expeditions; they are supported by 2-3 companions, and 3-6 grogs or so to provide muscle. While the 1-2 wizards and cohorts are off adventuring, the other PCs characters perform research and do other tasks that help grow the power, prestige, and magical resources of the covenant as a whole.

This is a rough outline of the troupe style of play: players share the spotlight over time by being the main focus of an adventure, while the rest of the main PC wizards support the covenant's labl, research, magic item manufacture, etc. activity. The game is very campaign-driven: the "off-times" between adventures are often more critical to a covenant's survival and prosperity than adventuring activity.

I recall liking Christopher Kubasik's article "The Interactive Toolkit" a lot, and that's one rpg.net's The Oracle site at http://www.rpg.net/oracle/essays/itoolkit1.html
Parts two and four speak indirectly to the different mind set of playing in a troupe, and I think in general this series captures a lot of the late 80s/early 90s approach to story over rules, which Ars Magica, Pendragon, and (to a lesser degree) Vampire 1st edition grew from.
 
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How are their suggestions for this type of game? I've always found the player with multiple characters just never really deveope them as well as if they only have the one. Also, they tend to have a favorite or perfered one and when they aren't playing that one they just are not into it as much. With the round robin DM style, do they have ideas for having that work. Clearing that is an idea that many have tried and few have had it work. It's hard to have plots last for a while becasue plots that I start others would ignore or not know what to do with. I've found that major plots introduced in that type of game get ignored by the other DMs for fear of ruining what the orginator had in mind.
 

For me, I never participated in round-robin DM style game. Either I or another ran the game for its run. There was a time when two of us switch DM hats from time to time, but that was with completely different characters and settings.

There are no worries about developing your characters. The game lends itself to the development of your characters, particularly the magi. On particular thing to remember is that the covenant, the place where the magi make their home, is a character unto itself. The reasons why the wizards came to live together, where they gain their vis, what treaties they have made, all this provides plot hooks for the DM. The political structure provides hooks. There's character development a'plenty. It's a great game.

Vis, by the way, is "solid magic". If you want a spell to be permanent (healing) or to make magic items you need this stuff. It is the currency of magical society. And, naturally, it's kind of hard to get.

Baron Opal
 

Ars Magica is one of my favourite games. As others have said, it is built around fundamentally different concepts to most RPGs.

Each player has a Magus and a Companion, and we have always had a grog of our own as well, rather than sharing them out as you are technically supposed to. Also we have never shared the GM duties - each campaign we've played has had only one ref.

The mages are indeed head and shoulders above the rest. Consider one particular spell - Aura of Righteful Authority. This is a Rego Mentem spell (Mind Control) that gives you total control over all mundane characters within range (i.e. pretty much anyone who isn't a mage). This spell alone will stop most 'traditional' adventures in their tracks.

There are three clever mechanisms that make this work, however:
Firstly, mages get more powerful by staying home and studying than they do by going on adventures, so you normally only have one or at most two mages who want to go on an adventure.
Secondly, as the mages normally all want to stay home on study they normally end up taking turns on going on the adventures, meaning that each player gets to be the 'super character' for a few sessions then someone else gets to be in the power spotlight.
Finally, the campaign world is created such that the mages are stopped from meddling in non-magical matters (so no dominating kings or bishops e.t.c.). This keeps the mages grounded and means that they still have some mundane concerns to worry about.

The game is great fun if you like political games. All the PCs normally live in the same covenant, a magical comune if you like. These are usually run along democratic lines, with mages holding meetings and voting on issues that affect the covenant, such as how the vis will be shared out. The twist is that your vote is based on your mage's sigil which is their personal symbol and badge of membership of the Hermetic Order. But you might not have your own sigil, your master might have it. Or you might have the sigils of other magi won through Certemen (magical duels) or some other machinations. So there is lots of opportunity for petty squabbles and politicing between mages, which is fun if you like that sort of thing. My wife described it as like being on a negotiation skills training course, though, and didn't enjoy it one bit.

Another aspect that we have always enjoyed is that if you make your three characters very different to each other, then playing each usually becomes a joy in itself. For example, your mage might be a crafter of magical devices, whilst your companion might be a knight and your grog might be a serving maid with a nose for gossip (one of my friends played this character and she was hoot)! Depending on the tone of the adventure, one of your characters is likely to fit in and want to go, but the others will be happy to stay home. And you get a totally different RP-ing experience for the duration of the adventure.

If you have a group of players who are into fantasy and full-on roleplaying then give it a go. If your group are more into action-RPGing (nothing wrong with that mind) then it's probably not for you.

If in doubt, give it a go!

Cheers,
Dan
 
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