Ars Magic 5th edition

[Wombat]

Lots of questions here

The system is point-buy and classless. You have a certain number of points with which to buy characteristics (Strength, Stamina, Communication, Presence, Dexterity, Quickness, Intelligence, Perception), but you can pick up more points to buy greater levels in these by taking negative points in others. The positive and negative points in your characteristics work very similarly to the attribute modifiers in D20.

Then you have points to buy Virtues and Flaws -- you don't have to take any of either, but for each point of Virtues you do take, you must take an equal number of Flaws. This is very similar to GURPS in many regards. There is a limit one the number of Virtues and Flaws you can take, with Grogs getting very few and Magi and Companions getting correspondingly more.

You then also have points with which to buy skills; usually grogs are less skilled than Companions. Magi also have points with which to buy abilites in magical skills as well as spells.

While "Magus", "Companion", and "Grog" sound like character classes, they really aren't; they are more like "power levels".

Grogs are common folks, in terms of physical and mental prowess rather than social status. They have fewer skills and Virtues than the others and tend to lead rather ordinary lives. A grog could be almost anyone -- a farmer, a guard, an innkeep, a shepherd, a nobleman, etc. The point is they are the bulk of humanity.

Companions are more powerful individuals, but lacking The Gift (magical power). They are the special folks of the world -- kings, great knights, wise herbalists, clever troubadors, etc. If someone would stand out in the world, you would give them the Companion's range of abilities.

Then there are the Magi. These are folks who have The Gift and, as such, are few and far between. This is the closest thing to a "class" in the game, but nothing prevents a magus from knowing how to handle a sword, sing a song, or rule a nation, other than the fact that they are probably more interested in increasing their magical skills.

 

[Staffan]

How is character creation? It seems that since the charcters all live and work together it would be best to have everyone create them at the same time. How long does it take? Also, what tpyes of Magi are there? Is there a lot of overlap between them or can a few magi be created that don't cover the same area?

While the system is classless, the designers realized that creating characters in a vacuum can be a bit boring. Therefore, they included various "houses" a magus can belong to, a way of tracking training lineage back to one of the founders of the Order of Hermes (of course, not all magi are directly "descended" from one of the originals, most just follow similar traditions). For the most part, the houses don't have any fixed benefits or disadvantages, they're just tips on things members of those houses tend to focus on (there are two exceptions I can think of: House Bjornaer are shape-shifters, and another house (Vydalis?) are great at making magic items but can't cast spells without various trinkets - both are reflected by mandatory virtues/flaws).

As for the magic system itself, it is handled via fifteen different arts: five techniques ("verbs": Creo/create, Perdo/destroy, Rego/control, Muto/change, Intellego/perceive) and ten forms ("nouns": Ignem/fire, Auram/air, Terram/earth, Aquam/water, Animal/animal, Herbam/plant, Corpus/body, Mentem/mind, Imago/image, Vim/magic). The cost of improving an art increases at higher levels, so a starting magus could either have one at something really high like 15 or two at 10-ish and a single point in some of the others, or he could spread his points around and get like 5 in all of them. When casting a spell, you usually use a combination of one technique and one form. For example, turning yourself invisible uses Perdo Imago (destroy image). In some cases, more than one of either technique or form (or both) is involved (such as turning someone to a pig requiring Muto Corpus and Animal). In these cases, you use the lowest technique combined with the lowest form.

The magic system has four kinds of magic use. The basic spellcasting is Formulaic magic. These are spells you've studied and learned beforehand (or researched). In order to cast one, roll 1d10+Technique+Form+Stamina. If you beat or equal the spell's level, it goes off without a hitch. If you miss by 10 or less, the spell also goes off, but you're fatigued by the effort (which is why Stamina, not Intelligence, is involved). If you miss by more than 10, you are fatigued but don't get your spell - this should be rather rare, though, because you usually don't learn spells that are too difficult for you.

The second type of spellcasting is spontaneous magic. This is usually only used for minor tricks, because it's pretty difficult. First you decide whether to exert yourself or not. Then you roll as above (except with Intelligence instead of Stamina), and divide the final result in either 2 or 5, depending on if you exert yourself or not. If you beat the spell's level, you succeed. Note the double difficulty increase: division by 2 or 5, and no 10-point buffer.

The third type is the ritual, which takes a couple of hours to use. Rituals can be used to exceed normal formulaic's limits on range or duration, but require vis (see below).

The fourth, and final, type of magic is the lab work. This is done on a seasonal basis, and includes studying, research, making magic items, and a lot of other things. Most lab work also requires vis.

Vis is basically solidified magic, linked to one of the fifteen arts. There are places where you can harvest small amounts of vis (e.g. a magic spring that lets you harvest three units of Aquam vis per season), plus that you can get vis from many magical creatures (the heart of a dragon has a LOT of vis). Depending on edition, you can also produce vis in your laboratory. Vis is pretty rare, but not obscenely so. It is often used as currency in wizardly interactions. Vis can also be used in spontaneous or formulaic casting for a bonus to the roll, and certain formulaic spells let you use vis to extend the duration or range. Notably, you need vis in order to create something permanent with magic. This includes permanent healing (otherwise, the wounds reopen at sunset/sunrise).

 

[mythusmage]

As for the magic system itself, it is handled via fifteen different arts: five techniques ("verbs": Creo/create, Perdo/destroy, Rego/control, Muto/change, Intellego/perceive) and ten forms ("nouns": Ignem/fire, Auram/air, Terram/earth, Aquam/water, Animal/animal, Herbam/plant, Corpus/body, Mentem/mind, Imago/image, Vim/magic).

Doesn't that come out to 50 arts?

Creoignem
Creoauram
Creoterram
Creoaquam
Creoanimal
Creoherbam
Creocorpus
Creomentem
Creoimago
Creovim

(Just for the Creo stuff.)

As for invisibility spells, what about using Intellegocorpus? As in, "Don't worry about him, he's not really there."

 

[Someone]

No, you have 15 arts, but you combine them when you cast spells. For example, if you have a score of 10 in Creo and 8 in Corpus, you add 18 (plus various bonuses, depending on the exact circumstances) to Creo Corpus spells; you don´t need a separate score for each combination. The spell system is versatile and IMO rewards some deal of specialization; you can desing your mage to be be a wind wizard getting a good score in Auram (also, using virtues and flaws to further define your spellcasting), or a necromancer, or be good in druid-like spells, be specially good with Ignem spells and be the typical blaster mage, etc. Being good in one area doesn´t mean you can´t cast other spells, of course.

Yes, knowing if there´s someone in a location is an use to Intellego Corpus. Other uses are knowing what type of illness someone has, a version of D&D´s "speak with dead", locating someone, "scrying" a person...

 

[mythusmage]

Rechecked my copy of 4e. You're right. I was thinking of arts in the ArM sense as being a combination of Form and Technique. That is, something like a basic sentence with Form the noun and Technique the verb. Form tells you what is being affected, Technique tells you the basic nature of the affect, though not the exact method used.

Hate to say this, but it looks like Jonathan and Mark didn't have a clear idea of what is meant by "art" when they first wrote the game. In this case a way of doing something. I submit, good people, that Form and Technique do not constitute arts in and of themselves, but are more properly considered elements necessary to the art of spell crafting. (And to think it only took me about 20 years to realize this. )

Could we be seeing the start of Ars Magica sixth edition in this thread?

 

[mythusmage]

The thing to understand here is that the magic of Ars Magica is anachronistic. That is, it's out of place temporally. The Hermetic Tradition was a product of the Renaissance; being an attempt to synthesize and reconcile earlier, contradictory magical traditions. A large part of it is taken from Kaballah (one type of Jewish mysticism), along with magical practices from Egypt and Babylon among others. Later alchemy and Enochian Magic would be incorporated.

Hermetic Magic was an early attempt to make magic scientific. To place it on a rational basis. I shant get into a debate over the 'reality' of magic. 'Tis fruitless and a waste of time. I will note that if magic did work as some think it should we would live in a very different world.

(How different? If we had a working version of Zone of Truth the U.S. Constitution would not have a prohibition against self incrimination.)

 

[Wombat]

Could we be seeing the start of Ars Magica sixth edition in this thread?

Oh dear, I hope not...

Took too long to put this edition together!

 

[mythusmage]

I suspect many would have difficulty with my change to the way magic and the practice of magic is viewed.

In this case I am using art as, the way things are done in a field of endevour. In the case of Ars Magica what you have is the art of magic as practiced by Hermetic magicians. A Sufi or Kaballah mystic would practice magic differently, and so would use a different art.

But getting people to think of Forms and Techniques as sub-elements (not even full elements) of The Art so soon after the release of 5e could cause problems.

 

[Khayman]

can't wait can't wait can't wait

 

[Wombat]

In this case I am using art as, the way things are done in a field of endevour. In the case of Ars Magica what you have is the art of magic as practiced by Hermetic magicians. A Sufi or Kaballah mystic would practice magic differently, and so would use a different art.

Atlas put out two great supplements regarding Jewish mysticism (Kaballah) and Islamic magics (Blood & Sand).

Knowing the author of the second, I have seen early work by him to convert his 4th ed material over to the 5th ed rules, which will mainly take work in the Virtues/Flaws department. It's good material and he has extra (and I think better stuff) over at his website.