art prices

[Hellefire]

So, after testing a game system for the last 8 years that a friend developed, I am working on printing and marketing it. I am good at a lot of things, but art is not one of them. My best friend, who also played the game, is theoretically supposed to do the art. For the last 3 years or so. So I suspect I will have to farm it out. Any guesses what's a fair price for a logo, an 8-1/2x11 full color cover graphic, an 8-1/2x11 b&w map and about 20 quarter-page size grayscale drawings? Maybe in color and we'll convert them and save the color versions for something later. And all rights/ownership of the pics.

Aaron

 

[BSF]

Absolutely no idea. But I had to read the thread since you were the poster.

Hmm, a new game system? Any idea when you are looking at release? I might be interested in hearing more about it.

 

[Cergorach]

All the rights are very expensive, publishing rights would be more common and cheaper. For the cover (color) and interior (greyscale) artwork expect a budget for around $2000. Dsigning a logo is a whole different game room, you'll need the rights for everything with that one, redesigns, etc. Don't have a clue what that would cost, but expect that the more demands you make and the more revisions you ask for, the more you'll pay. If anything, try to design your own logo, unless money isn't an object,,,

There are probably cheaper artists around, there are also more expensive ones, so don't expect elmore to illustrate your book for the above prices. If an artist can do the illustrations for a lot less then the above, he ain't very good, or he's a new artist that needs publishing 'credit'.

 

[Eosin the Red]

There are dozens of different answers to this question - your real question should be what can I pay and what is the minimum quality I can accept.

Here is a cover low-down IME
You can get someone to do it for less than a hundred dollars but uggghhhhh (this is where the huge majority of PDFs come in - - - if the cover actually has an illustration).
$200 to $500 can get you a solid but generally not an outstanding cover.
$500 - $1000 will get you known artists but you still aren't getting the freaky cover yet.
$1000 - $2000 will get you people who make a living doing kickin cover art.
$2000 +++ will get you into the top RPG tier of artists (WAR, BROM, etc)


These are all generalities. Nothing matters except the deal between you and the artist (or their agent if you are shootin for the big boys). When you have made all the considerations, post an open call at the RPG.net Freelancers forum but be ready to provide contracts, deposits, etc.... Also be ready for dozens of replies.

I suggest that you consider purchasing the PDF'rs guide at RPGnow (look under the vendors category).

 

[Cathix]

I've done quite a bit of low cost logo work for the pdf publishing community this year. I'd be happy to help you too - take a look at our website and some of the samples on the graphics page. Send me an email if you want to talk about working together: siretokkor@yahoo.com.

We also contributed the logo for the 2005 ENnies Awards.

Also, if I design a logo for you, you'll own the rights.

As for art and illustrations, so far I've been able to subcontract really talented folks who are willing to work on royalties only. I do not own the rights to their work, and they can turn around and sell the illustrations to someone else if they choose. Established artists generally don't want to work this way, which is understandable - but there are so many extremely talented people who are willing to do low-cost work to get their name out there. I visit the website epilogue.net, and other sites like it, and if I see an artist whose work I think will go well with a project I send them an email. In that very first email I describe Dog Soul's rates of pay, so there's no beating around the bush. I've yet to have any response - yay or nay - that's discourteous or unfriendly. People appreciate honesty. Also, a lot of artists who only accept up-front payment have told me 'give me a buzz when you can afford my rates, I'd like to work with you.' I appreciate building a contact list, because in the future I really want to pay the people who work with Dog Soul more generously!

I find that locating artists myself and contacting them directly works very well, in addition to posting an open call on a board.

Good luck with finding people, and contact me if you're interested in the logo.

 

[tonym]

Hi, Aaron.

Could your artist-friend be holding-out for an offer of money? If so, offer money and your problem may be solved.

If not, start looking for the artists who've done work on the Warlord CCG and L5R CCG (I've worked on these games, but I'm busy), or any other games. Contact the ones you like, whose style fits the game. If you're almost positive your game will sell over a thousand copies, maybe pay the following amounts: cover $350, b&w interior art $25-35 per quarter page, logo $100. Set solid deadlines and pay upon delivery of artwork (not 90 days after publication, or whatever). Total: $950-1150. By the way, these prices are the industry average for medium-sized companies (IMO), so they won't insult most artists (IMO), except for artists with names you may have heard of (IMO).

If you think you might not crack 500 sales (a real possibility these days), you might instead offer $175 for a cover, $10-15 for quarter-page b&ws, $75 to design the logo. Total: $450-550. Be prepared, though, for some of the artists to flake-out and drop the project without warning.

Note: You should pay MORE for art if you are asking for complicated pictures. Maybe even 'double' the above rates. More detail equals more time for the artist, after all.

Be sure to use contracts, by the way.

And GOOD LUCK!

Tony M

 

[Hellefire]

Thanks for all the info on art. I will be looking more into that now that I have a base idea about it.

Release...maybe by the end of the year. It was created and has been in testing and refinement for a decade, but mainly with our gaming groups. I am still considering more extensive beta testing. I still need to do a lot of proofing on the currently 120 page rulebook. I need to find the art. I need to figure out contracts for artists, possibly playtesters, publishers, printers, etc. I am trying to figure out the ins and outs of publishing it ourselves. I have to set-up the marketing, get the website designed (programming is really my area of expertise). So, maybe by the end of the year, maybe next year. Part of the reason I want to buy all rights and ownership of the art is to give us more versatility and later options with it, and to shorten the length of the contract.

My best friendis one of the best artists I've ever met, both on paper/canvas and electronically. But he needs to be inspired. Not by money, by his own mind. I understand, I write poetry, and I can't 'make' myself do it well. Sometimes it flows, sometimes it doesn't. But he also procrastinates a lot. But I really need to get that aspect of the project going.

Anyway, thanks again for all the info. I'm sure I'll have more questions as the process progresses.

Aaron

p.s. Oh, and add on to that raising a 1-1/2 year old baby (whos mother is going to college full time), working full time to support the 3 of us, just re-enrolled in college full time myself, AND trying to get other outside work (including the recent call for editors from Dog Soul) and, well, I'm still hoping for release by Xmas. Of course Ceramic DM might push it back a week or two .

 

[tonym]

...My best friendis one of the best artists I've ever met, both on paper/canvas and electronically. But he needs to be inspired. Not by money, by his own mind. I understand, I write poetry, and I can't 'make' myself do it well....

That's what separates the amateur from the professional, really. The amateur does his art out of love, and only when their inspiration-levels are high. The professional, on the other hand, has tapped into a bottomless source of inspiration, or needs no inspiration whatsoever. They can work hours a day, every day, on their art.

Again, good luck.

Tony M

 

[sirfrancisdrake]

I am a freelance illustrator, I can do the color cover, and all B&W interior illustrations for $900, U.S.

you can see my online portfolio here:

http://www.foolsplayground.com/index.php?name=PNphp882&file=album_personal&user_id=10


Hope you like em!

Mike Franchina

 

[Hellefire]

We will also be doing a printed version, so will need to add a bnack cover to that list. I will look at webpages for everyone who has responded and pass them along to the man making the final decision as well.


Aaron