Arthaus reverts rights to Ravenloft and Gamma World back to Wotc

[DreadPirateMurphy]

To those who keep ripping on Gamma World...um, given the average quality of editing and content that appears on gaming shelves (not to mention PDFs), you're being harsh. I find there are a handful of publishers I trust not to turn out garbage -- SSS is one of them, generally.

Did I think Gamma World was as good as the stuff from Malhavoc or Arthaus's Ravenloft products? No, not really. But I thought it was a perfectly valid and reasonably well done take on the setting.

You may dislike what the authors did with the setting or some of the game mechanics...but they almost certainly put a lot of effort into Gamma World D20, and they deserve some respect for that.

P.S.: I'm not ripping on publishers. I like the work from Necromancer Games, Green Ronin, Mongoose, Fantasy Flight Games, and MANY OTHERS.

 

[Buttercup]

On the other hand, if I were going to release a new edition of the game, the last thing I'd want out there were licenses that allowed others to support older editions of my IP....

Psst! OGL. It's too late.

 

[Dark Psion]

It wasn't just the editing, it was the design.

They cut out most mutations, mutant plants as a race, the psionic rules were suicidal there was too much DM material in the Player's sections and basically, IMHO, the game just was not fun to play and that is the kiss of death to any RPG.

Ravenloft suffered to, one of the things I really liked about the setting was that it incorporated all TSR settings into it. You could have adventurers from the Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance and Dark Sun in a party fighting side by side.

But when WW got it, there went all that flavor, no more Lord Soth, Van Richten was killed off and what was left just seemed bland compared to what had come before.


Gamma World will be back, it just needs to mutate once again, maybe as an official D20Future Gamma World book.

But I fear Ravenloft will not see the sunrise again.

 

[Mangrum]

I'm off to Gen Con in a matter of hours, but before I go, I'd like to thank folks for the generally positive comments for the Kargatane and our work on 3E Ravenloft. (And as for those with complaints... well, I know where you're coming from and generally agree.)

Warms my shriveled, lifeless heart, it does.

As for what this means for the Kargatane -- well, I dunno if it means anything in the end, but I suppose that's a discussion that we should go have.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Does this mean its the end of the line for Ravenloft D20?

 

[trancejeremy]

From what I saw of the Ravenloft books, I was fairly impressed. They looked neat, but it was one of those lines that I simply couldn't afford to get into.

 

[trancejeremy]

Why would you gain an IP, then not use it? if GW was changed that much, it seems silly to be proud of the changes, just make another game...

Unfortunately, pretty much everytime someone acquires an IP, they change it.

But I've never understood it either, because why go out and get a brand name, if the end product the brand name goes on is not what people expect. I guess the marketing people think people will buy something if they have heard of it, it doesn't matter if it's like the original or not.


A recent example in the computer game world - some company bought the rights to "Might & Magic", a long time computer game series. And what is the new Might & Magic going to be? A first person action RPG. Unlike either 2 of the popular Might & Magic game lines (one was a normal RPG, the other a strategy game)

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

To those who keep ripping on Gamma World...um, given the average quality of editing and content that appears on gaming shelves (not to mention PDFs), you're being harsh. I find there are a handful of publishers I trust not to turn out garbage -- SSS is one of them, generally.

Given the average quality of editing and content that comes out of Sword & Sorcery Studios, or their parent company, I could be far harsher.

They're a top-tier company that-- as you seem to agree-- puts out top-tier products.

I try to avoid being harsh, even with products I do not care for, because I know that I'm talking about someone else's baby-- a project they've put weeks or months or even years of work into, and a project they're excited about. People don't get into game design if they don't love it.

I don't sell my projects, but I do share them-- and I've gotten some harsh comments about them. I know what that feels like, and I know that it sucks.

But the person I replied to took a customer-- someone who paid money for his work-- and called him "ignorant" and accused him of "spewing nonsense" because he complained about the quality of that work. He proceeded to belittle this customer and label his complaints as nothing more than the rumblings of dissatisfied nostalgia. That attitude is unjustifiable, especially when those complaints have some basis.

It is one thing to defend one's work, and I will never begrudge a man for that. It is another thing to place yourself above criticism and to insult people for having the audacity to voice their dissatisfaction with products they've paid good money for.

You may dislike what the authors did with the setting or some of the game mechanics...but they almost certainly put a lot of effort into Gamma World D20, and they deserve some respect for that.

Yes, they do-- please, read the paragraph about harshness again, and know that I mean it. And I do try to give credit where credit is due, even in products that I consider to be poor overall. Every book in the Gamma World d20 product line has incredible story material in it, and has ideas that are just begging to be used in a post-apocalyptic game.

I respect the effort the contributors put into the product line. I even respect their ability to take pride in their work even when I believe it to be subpar (I know I've done the same with my work). I do not respect, and will never respect, designers who cannot face criticism of their work and designers who disrespect the people their work is designed for.

I've already made my complaints about Gamma World-- mostly in far kinder tones than I have in this thread. I wouldn't have "ripped on" it any further were it not for the disgusting attitude in the post I replied to.

 

[scourger]

I hope WotC puts Jonathon Tweet on Gamma World. His Omega World was great.

 

[Darth Mikey]

Usually, I am happy to let the ignorant spew nonsense, but this is just going too far. Bruce Baugh has said, repeatedly, that Gamma World d20 did just fine -- though it certainly didn't break any records -- and it was always intended to be a limited run (though more books might have been added if it had sold really, really well). Not to mention the fact that 'abominable' is one hell of a strong word when one you mean is 'I't didn't stroke my nostalgia like I thought it should have.' Never once in the year leading up to its release did Bruce even suggest that this was yer daddy's GW. That you didn't listen and then cried yourself to sleep because there weren't any mutant cacti isn't really Bruce's, mine or WW's fault, now is it?

Maybe in that year leading up to the release WW should have sat down and listened to the customers.