Artificer's Handbook - anyone got it?

[der_kluge]

And as a curiousity. I've always had a beef with the cost of Daern's Instant Fortress in the DMG since it's only a scant 5000 gp more expensive then a regular tower of the same size. What would the cost of one of these be in your book?

Let me give it a shot.

SRD:
Instant Fortress: This metal cube is small, but when activated by speaking a command word it grows to form a tower 20 feet square and 30 feet high, with arrow slits on all sides and a crenellated battlement atop it. The metal walls extend 10 feet into the ground, rooting it to the spot and preventing it from being tipped over. The fortress has a small door that opens only at the command of the owner of the fortress—even knock spells can’t open the door.
The adamantine walls of instant fortress have 100 hit points and hardness 20. The fortress cannot be repaired except by a wish or a miracle, which restores 50 points of damage taken.
The fortress springs up in just 1 round, with the door facing the device’s owner. The door opens and closes instantly at his command. People and creatures nearby (except the owner) must be careful not to be caught by the fortress’s sudden growth. Anyone so caught takes 10d10 points of damage (Reflex DC 19 half ).
The fortress is deactivated by speaking a command word (different from the one used to activate it). It cannot be deactivated unless it is empty.
Strong conjuration; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage’s magnificent mansion; Price 55,000 gp.

Let's break down all the effects:
unlimited use. The command-word activation is irrelevant to the cost. The duration of the spell "mage's magnificent mansion" is 2 hours/level, which is nonstandard, but breaks down to 11 spell slots (we'll just use the entry for 1 hr/level). Spell level 7, caster level 13.

The fact that the door only opens to the caster I'm just going to chalk up to an aspect of the spell. So, no increase there.

The fact that the walls have a hardness and hit points I almost see as a disadvantage. The spell doesn't have these things. So, I'm going to give it a -1 spell cost reduction. It is really, really tough after all.

A Daern's instant fortress has other limitations, like people can see it, and it probably wouldn't work in a dungeon if it can't expand properly. So, I'll give it another -1.
10 spell slots total.

10gp(7 + 13 - 1) * 9^2 = 15,390gp

Now, being crushed by this thing is a definite advantage, and sounds mysteriously like Wall of Iron to me. But Wall of Iron's damage is only 10d6. But this is an extra effect, and has to be costed as such. Plus an additional +4 spell slot cost for the increased damage. That's not terribly expensive since a wall of iron is a permanent effect anyway. So, even though the spell duration is listed as "instantaneous" I'm going to treat it as permanent, which it is. The cost for that is 5 slots, +1 for being the first additional effect, +4 for the increased damage. Caster level is 11, spell level is 6.
10gp(6 + 11 -1) * 10^2 = 16,000gp

15,390gp + 16,000gp = 31,390gp; market cost = 62,780gp.

That sounds about right.

Of course, that's my own interpretation. Someone might want to add an additional cost for the "knock" requirement on the door, and that would increase the cost accordingly.

edit: had to redo my math.

 

[MEG Hal]

I am glad Curtis is doing this and I think it is truly an amazing book (as the sales have shown), thanks all who have or are getting this book and thanks Curtis for showing everyone how to use it.

The Artificer's Handbook is available at your LGS and online stores now as well as our own online store---enjoy!

 

[der_kluge]

The Articier's Handbook is available at your LGS and online stores now as well as our own online store---enjoy!

Proof why Hal does not edit our books.

Thanks Hal.

 

[MEG Hal]

Proof why Hal does not edit our books.

Thanks Hal.

LMAO
fixed
*cursed stubby fingers*

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

Mind trying how you would price a Cube of Force from the DMG?

And also, how about an item that produces up to 5 ft. of caltrops a round, at will?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[jmucchiello]

jmucchiello,
I have extrapolated it out that way and it comes out way too cheap - IMHO.

If the players are creating these, so what? They can already cast several 9th level spells daily. In terms of purchase, who is going to have a large quantity of these things on hand? They need to be custom-ordered. "I can fit your item in next spring, perhaps."

Also, don't forget to double since these items don't take up a chakra slot.

Your figure is interesting because after you double it (we're not talking a 1/month ring here) it costs about the same as a 9th level scroll. Thus we discover we should probably base the price on the scroll cost. I'd say x3 is a good factor for a monthly item. and x10 for a weekly item. Anything higher will intrude on the 1/day cost.

 

[der_kluge]

Mind trying how you would price a Cube of Force from the DMG?

And also, how about an item that produces up to 5 ft. of caltrops a round, at will?

Thanks ahead of time.

Just so happens that Cube of Force is an example in the back.

Cube of force 43,940gp (3.0 DMG 62,000gp)

spell level 5, caster level 9; 8 slots (Command-word, once per day)
+2 Turn duration on/off
+2 Lower settings available for lesser effect
+2 Resistant to the disintegrate spell
-1 Certain powerful attack forms cost charges

Note: 36 charges per day where the normal spell lasts one minute per level and the most powerful setting of the item lasts for 6 minutes is basically equivalent to a once per day item that can be turned on and off. The –1 for “certain attack forms cost charges” is similar to a –2 limitation of certain events that causes the duration to cease, however, it only causes a portion of the duration to cease, hence, the –1 limitation.

----------

Caltrop generator, huh?

Well, unlike a nice, pretty rose, that sounds like it could be possible with the prestidigitation spell. But, the spell description is vague "creates small objects". So, I'll just say that it can create 1 square foot of caltrops with one casting. So, this item would need to fill a 5' square. That's 25 castings of prestidigitation to fill that square. Ok, that's probably a bit absurd, actually.

Minor Creation is probably more appropriate. That's a cubic foot of caltrops. That would probably easily fill up a 5' square.

So, essentially, you want to have a bag that dumps a cubic foot of caltrops an unlimited number of times. Awesome!

spell level 4, caster level 9, spell slots 11 (for 1 hour/level duration spell). I'm going to apply a -4 reduction since your _just_ getting caltrops. That spell allows for a lot more variety than that. 7 spell slots.

10gp(4 + 9 - 1) * 7^2 = 5,880gp; market cost = 11,760gp

That's a pretty groovy item.

 

[Conaill]

Ok, I've got one for you...

Trying to come up with an alternative shield 3.5 enchantment for 3.5. Essentially, it gives the benefits of the 3.5 Haste spell, except that instead of an extra attack during a Full Attack, it grants and extra non-move Move action.

Here's the kicker: I'd like you to calculate it without actually referring back to the 3.5 Haste spell!

So we get a +1 shield, that for 10 rounds per day, gives an extra +30 to movement (up to double current movement rate), +1 to attack, AC and Reflex, and an extra Move action that doesn't actually include any movement...

 

[BSF]

If the players are creating these, so what? They can already cast several 9th level spells daily. In terms of purchase, who is going to have a large quantity of these things on hand? They need to be custom-ordered. "I can fit your item in next spring, perhaps."

Also, don't forget to double since these items don't take up a chakra slot.

Your figure is interesting because after you double it (we're not talking a 1/month ring here) it costs about the same as a 9th level scroll. Thus we discover we should probably base the price on the scroll cost. I'd say x3 is a good factor for a monthly item. and x10 for a weekly item. Anything higher will intrude on the 1/day cost.

Except, activiting a magic item does not draw an AOO while reading a scroll does.

Still, I hadn't thought about working it from the standpoint of a scroll's cost with a modifier. Interesting.

Magic items are difficult to buy IMC. For the most part, if my players want a creative magic item, they will consipire amongst themselves to get it created. Aside from potions and possibly scrolls, they aren't looking to purchase very often.

 

[der_kluge]

Ok, I've got one for you...

Trying to come up with an alternative shield 3.5 enchantment for 3.5. Essentially, it gives the benefits of the 3.5 Haste spell, except that instead of an extra attack during a Full Attack, it grants and extra non-move Move action.

Here's the kicker: I'd like you to calculate it without actually referring back to the 3.5 Haste spell!

So we get a +1 shield, that for 10 rounds per day, gives an extra +30 to movement (up to double current movement rate), +1 to attack, AC and Reflex, and an extra Move action that doesn't actually include any movement...

So, you have a +1 shield, that's: 450gp creation cost. I'm not even gonna calculate that since there are numerous examples of +1 bonus items in the back.

And then you've added a 1 use-per day effect that lasts for 10 rounds that grants +1 to attack, +1 to AC, +1 to reflex, and an extra move action that doesn't include any movement. Curious.

So, why is it that you don't want me to refer to the Haste spell for this?

Thing is, the Spell Slot item creation system is based on *spells*. I need a spell to create this with. If you won't allow me to use Haste, you need to give me some other spell to base it off of. Right now, Haste is my best candidate.

So, some unnamed 3rd level spell, caster level 10 (10 rounds per level), 4 for command-word, 1 use-per day (+4). 8 spell slots, +1 for added effect.
10gp(3 + 10 - 1) * 9^2 = 9,720gp + 450gp = 10,170gp creation cost.