Artificer's Handbook - anyone got it?

My point was don't these seem absurdly low:

Essentially the same item, different spell. the cost for "invisibility, greater" is higher because it has a shorter duration. Spell slots 15, 17 respectively. Spell level 2, 4; Caster level 3, 7

???

3.5 DMG prices the regular invisibility at 20,000 and doesn't have a Ring of Greater Invisibility, probably for the abuse it may have caused in 3.0e when the duration was longer. In 3.5 the duration is in rounds so while you can attack without cancelling it, it will probably fade fairly quick.

So what you really want is an Extended Greater Invisibility Ring, caster level 15 (so it lasts 30 rounds, or 3 minutes before expiring).

So according to your prices, a regular ring of invisibility would cost 9,000 gp and last 3 minutes (30 rounds).

A greater ring of invisibility (as detailed above) would cost:

10gp(5 + 15 - 1) * 17^2 = 54,910 (invisibility, greater)

But the power here is immense. 30 rounds of combat invisibility to anyone makes this a must-buy for rogues. To put in terms of 3.5 items its on par with Amulet of Nat. Armor +5, Cloak of Displacement Major (which in 3.5 only lasts 15 rounds per day), Amulet of Mighty Fists +3, Wings or Carpet of Flying, Cloak of Etherealness (10 min per day) or an inherent +2 bonus by reading a tome.

The cloaks are the most readily comprable, and its easy to see how the ring is far more powerful. It works for 3 minutes, but it can be re-activated with a simple standard action (at say, the 2min50sec mark if you are in combat). The cloaks both bust after one protracted encounter or travel session (and they aren't that long). The ring shines all day and night, and it doesnt go away if you attack. Priced a mere 2.5 times more than the version in DMG it seems quite powerful. Is there a red flag for things like etherealness, invisibility, or teleport? These effects can tend to break items (and modules) for their price.

How close are your prices on mobility (which 3.5 tends to price higher than 3.0) like flying or movement increases (I saw the boots of springing and striding earlier, but you forgot to add the +5 competence bonus to Jump rolls that the 3.5 version has to your price).

Also you didn't really have an answer for the monk weapon with spell storing quality. In 3.5 I would just double the ring's price for each instance it is needed on an item but you wanted to base it off a spell. Does the book interact with DMG magic items or try to derive them all itself? If so, it seems core items like spellstoring or counterspelling items need to be statted. I'm also curious if you messed with the base amount of gold a PC should have at any given level.

Technik
 
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die_kluge said:


Am I good, or what? I've never even heard of such an item. How interesting. That item doesn't mention keeping the spell level the same, though. Well, it's not clear in any case.

And not only did I come close, you know *how* I arrived at my number. With the DMG system, it's anyone's guess!

So, if i pick this up and like it, and want to reuse it, how much of the system is OGC?
 


I was gonna buy some items on amazon and wanted them soon, minions of shadow was unable to be shipped before 1 or 2 months so I skepped it to Artificer's handbook, even though i had read just minor things on it, now that I have read all the messages here that were posted after I have left it aside I do not regret at all, it is gonna be used by anyone wanting to make an item.

By the way I want to congratulate Mystic Eye and this die Klung (Curtis) for the great job they seem to have done and when I have received it and done reading I will try to post a review on my website, if i do so it will be the first or one of the five "first", since I bought other books and plan on reading them before...

Edit added:

Is there any plan to make an online step by step program to help us calcuate the costs? It would be great and support!
 
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Here's wsomething I've been meaning to ask. The ELH makes "epic" items cost a heck of a lot more then normal items. I didn't notice anything like that in this book. Is there any concern that high lewvel characters can create and equip themselves with lots of powerful magical items because the cost is realtively cheap compaired to the core rules?
 

Crothian said:
Here's wsomething I've been meaning to ask. The ELH makes "epic" items cost a heck of a lot more then normal items. I didn't notice anything like that in this book. Is there any concern that high lewvel characters can create and equip themselves with lots of powerful magical items because the cost is realtively cheap compaired to the core rules?

Well the Epic Level Handbook itself is not open game content, I believe, they made some small guidelines to the SRD but not epic weapon making, for example. Am I right here?

But your question is good and maybe your concerns don't turn out to be true, or maybe the situation could be handled by a modifier for "epic" status to items, like the roses thing.

Just my thoughts and doubts, though.
 

While the ELH is not open content there is no reason one cannot make a sword +10 for instance. Instead of calling them epic, we could refer to them as just more powerful then those presented in the DMG.
 

Crothian, there's nothing technically stopping you from making a +10 sword with the Spell Slot rules.

Let's make a go of it.

spell slots = 12
spell level = 11 oops. :)
Caster level = 22

Well, I was wrong. I guess there is something *technically* wrong from making a +10 sword. But, we could alter it a bit and use 9th level spells instead. I'd still need TWELVE of them. A 20th level Sorcerer with a 62 Charisma has that many 9th level spells.

Ok, so that's a bit ridiculous.

But, if you had a god create something like that, with 11th level spells, you could still figure out the cost for such a creation:

10gp(11 + 21# - 1) * 12^2
310gp * 144 = 44,640gp creation cost * 2 = 89,280gp market cost * 2 for weapons = 178,560gp

# = the theoretical level required to cast an 11th level spell.

But Nifelhein is correct, none of the ELH item creation rules are SRD.

Let's try a +6 sword:
10gp(7 + 14 - 1) * 8^2 = 200gp*64 = 12,800 * 2 * 2 = 51,200gp market cost. Which isn't enourmous, but it requires fourteen 7th level spells to create. The minimum it would take to create that is an 18th level sorcerer. Alternatively, a 17th level sorcerer with a 34 charisma could do it as well, but that's not terribly realistic.

In my game, I would have no problem allowing a character to create such a thing, but I would most definitely require a "weird" component (p. 88). Something like "10 scruples of 'the benefit of a doubt'" should be sufficiently evil enough to dissuade any character from attempting it. :)

As for your concerns about high level characters abusing the system, that's a valid concern. In general, the cost for weapons and armor are less, and some wondrous items are less, but most are more. For example, I let a character create a quiver of Ehlohnna that only holds arrows for 1,000gp, but I had originally priced it out to 3,000gp (using some slight fudging factors), but he didn't care about the javelin and bow storage spaces, so we disregarded those portions of the cost. He also took a glove of storing (these are starting magic items for a new campaign), and I costed it to around 3,500gp, as compared to 10,000gp in the DMG, which I felt like was way more reasonable. He also wanted boots of the winterlands, which cost more than 5,000gp using spell slot, compared to 2,500gp in the DMG.

In general, your game breakers - anything that allows a spell to permanently be in effect in an item, is going to cost more than the DMG. The other limiting factor is the sheer number of spell slots some of these things require. Putting a short duration spell into an item and making it permanent can cost upwards 19 spell slots of that level. So, unless it's a really low level spell, it becomes inconceivable.


Nifelhein - thanks! Let us know your thoughts on the product after you've had a chance to read through it.
 

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