Assassin in DDN

[Walker N. Waistz]

2nd Edition.

If you mean the Holy Slayer from the Al-Qadim boxed set (detailed in Wolfgnag Baur's Assassin Mountain), then hells yeah.

 

[Serendipity]

Could you demonstrate then how exactly a rogue and assassin in 1e differ?

Assassins had disguise ability, a greater facility with weapons (including shields), the capability to work as spies, and the aforementioned assassination mechanic, as well as the (reduced) ability to function as thieves.
Thieves, on the other hand, were restricted to a handful of weapons, had no shields, no disguise, and no spying ability, Both had the same thief skills, with assassins getting them two levels later.

It still remains my favorite version of the class, though that's only in comparison to the 3e PrC (spellcasting) and the 4e version, neither of which I'm overly fond of. Ideally, assassin would work better as a theme on top of another class (fighters and thieves/rogues would be the first to spring to mind, though an assassin themed illusionist could be frightening). To be clear, I don't have an issue with individual assassins having spellcasting or whatever, but when it's a class feature, there tends to be an assumption that every member of that profession has those exact abilities. Not an opinion I share, but there it is.

 

[Sunseeker]

Assassins had disguise ability, a greater facility with weapons (including shields), the capability to work as spies, and the aforementioned assassination mechanic, as well as the (reduced) ability to function as thieves.
Thieves, on the other hand, were restricted to a handful of weapons, had no shields, no disguise, and no spying ability, Both had the same thief skills, with assassins getting them two levels later.

It still remains my favorite version of the class, though that's only in comparison to the 3e PrC (spellcasting) and the 4e version, neither of which I'm overly fond of. Ideally, assassin would work better as a theme on top of another class (fighters and thieves/rogues would be the first to spring to mind, though an assassin themed illusionist could be frightening). To be clear, I don't have an issue with individual assassins having spellcasting or whatever, but when it's a class feature, there tends to be an assumption that every member of that profession has those exact abilities. Not an opinion I share, but there it is.

Hmm I see, I was truly unfamiliar with how thieves and assassins and rogues in earlier editions were all differentiated. I do really like the shadow powers of the 4e assassin, but I'm certainly down for the option to make a magic-less assassin.

Like I suggested perviously, I'd love to see each and every class interlock in an MTG color-pie style. That way you could build a "pure" any class, but also cross-class without having to actually multiclass and still be effective.

 

[gyor]

Nice straw man you have there.

I've never seen the 1st ad&d assassin so I'm not an exert on it, but what made it stand out from the rogue? Its hard to debate the merits of it if I don't know much about it.

I can't what to see what 5e has planned for the assassin class.

 

[Khaalis]

Assassins had disguise ability, a greater facility with weapons (including shields), the capability to work as spies, and the aforementioned assassination mechanic, as well as the (reduced) ability to function as thieves.

^^ This!

While I enjoy what they did with the 4E assassin, I would prefer it to be an alternate. I'd like the assassin to be a non-magical/non-mystic class as the base and allow for the addition of the over-the-top, wuxia, ninja style aspects of the 4E version as something else, possibly a theme/build option.

In fact, the 1E style assassin is pretty much exactly what Fantasy Craft used to build their Assassin class. In reality "assassin" is almost a misnomer, in that technically anyone can be an assassin. But the 'class concepts" are actually much more akin to a Spy class. FC describes the assassin as "an agent of violent change, a hidden warrior removing key figures for flag or fortune". They are masters of deception and subterfuge.

 

[outsider]

I like my Assassins as martial powered combat rogues. So, technically 1e is my favorite implementation. If Wizards had have named the 4e Rogue Assassin instead, that would be my favorite.

Rogues tend to suffer from the "you have all this non-combat stuff, thus you should suck in combat" mentality, particularly in games where characters aren't specifically combat balanced. Assassins don't suffer from that mindset as badly. Basically, when I'm playing an Assassin, I want a warrior that exchanges heavy armor and hp for stealth and dirty combat tricks. I don't care about picking pockets, thieves cant, deciphering languages/magic, bluffing, etc.

 

[gyor]

I like my Assassins as martial powered combat rogues. So, technically 1e is my favorite implementation. If Wizards had have named the 4e Rogue Assassin instead, that would be my favorite.

Rogues tend to suffer from the "you have all this non-combat stuff, thus you should suck in combat" mentality, particularly in games where characters aren't specifically combat balanced. Assassins don't suffer from that mindset as badly. Basically, when I'm playing an Assassin, I want a warrior that exchanges heavy armor and hp for stealth and dirty combat tricks. I don't care about picking pockets, thieves cant, deciphering languages/magic, bluffing, etc.

Interesting, but I still prefer the 4e shadow magic assassin subclasses. I guess when I think assassin, I think more ninja and simular characters.

The 4e Rogue paragon path master spy with a doppelganger and a spiked shield.

If it makes you feel better you could techniquely build a executioner with little to no shadow magic. All of an executioners shadow magic is in his utility powers which can be traded out for racial utilities. Executioners can even use shields.

Given the assassin with be one of,the complex classes thier maybe flexiblity in this.

 

[Kynn]

The spy's focus (James Bond, Emma Peel): fighting with dirty tricks, disguise (the most underused ability of 1e assassins), social skills. Skilled with most common weapons and many exotics, or maybe they have mastered a specific fighting style (judo chop!). The PC can infiltrate an enemy base and make almost everyone inside believe they belong. They might do some assassination in a pinch, but this is a hero archetype, not a paid killer archetype.

Surely James "License to Kill" Bond is an assassin archetype and not just a spy, if anyone is.

 

[fuindordm]

Surely James "License to Kill" Bond is an assassin archetype and not just a spy, if anyone is.

That's what I'm sayin'! But so is Emma Peel. They have the same skill set, but one is a cold-hearted bastard and the other is not. So "Spy" is a better name for the class, but spies make good assassins when necessary.

JB doesn't get "Go kill that person for us" assignments. Both spies get "Go find out what's going on, and stop it" assignments.

 

[howandwhy99]

I think Themes are more about backgrounds and sub-classes are more about setting specializations of core classes. Assassins count as the latter for me. Noble birth counts as the former. Anyways, here's some quotes and summaries of the 1e assassin: "quiet killers of evil nature"

May use any weapon or shield and superior to thieves in combat. “The killing of human and other intelligent life forms for the purpose of profit is basically held to be the antithesis of weal.”

“An assassin character need not be a member of the Assassins Guildof the town or city he or she dwells in, but all NPC assassins are members of such guilds.” One exists in “most” cities or towns, each controls an area from 10-100 miles radius around the headquarters. “Any assassin discovered in a guild area who is not a member of the local Assassins Guild will be invited to join, thus coming under the authority and command of the Guildmaster Assassin.” Not joining sentences them to death, if they perform an assassination while not a member.

Primary Function: Killing. Assassins must designate between Normal, Backstab, and Assassinate attacks prior to rolling.

1. Poison Use: ingested or insinuated by weapon.
a. Ingested must be put into the food or drink and character doing so must detail exactly When, Where and How. DM adjudicates.
b. Poisoned weapons can be noticed. All non-assassins within 10’ of the bared weapon gain 10% cumulative chance / melee round of noticing. (20% attack user, 50% get help – the city watch, 30% both) See example for time-based accumulation of chance and reaction roll.

2. Backstab as thieves of same level.

3. Assassinate attack optionally on a Surprised victim. 50% immediately killing victim, failed attempts do normal damage with appropriate modifiers. (So if a poisoned weapon is used, S.T. vs. Poison or die still required on a failure.) Assassinations gain XP for both fee paid and the victim killed. (See table). Awards formula in DMG.

4. Alignment Tongue (including Thieves Cant and Druidic) – 9th level Assassins with INT 15+ may learn these languages, 1 for each point above INT 14 and level beyond 8th.

5. Disguise – Worn to appear as human, demi-human, or humanoid creature of any sex. Height minus 2-3” or plus 4-5” Slimmer or fatter. Any class even NPC classes.
a. Noticed 2% / day Base Chance. +2 modifier for different race, sex, and class (max. 8%). Each party checks upon encountering and every 24 hours thereafter. -1% penalty / point below 24 of combined INT and WIS of observer. +1% bonus / point above 30. True Seeing and Wand of Enemy Detection will reveal a disguise. Know Alignment and Detect Evil reveal “in some cases”.

Secondary function: Spying. ”Can be combined with stealing”.

Tertiary as thieves. All thief abilities as a thief 2 levels lower.

No hirelings until 4th level, then lower level assassins only. At 8th level some may be thieves. At 12th level any class. All of only Neutral or Evil will ever serve. Number is by CHA, but Followers can only be gained at level 14 and 15.

To reach 14th level must assassinate the current Guildmaster, duel to the death. To reach 15th level must travel to Grandfather of Assassins and do the same. “Duplicity, trickery, ambush, and all forms of treachery are considered as fair by assassins. A higher level character can accept a challenge and then have the challenger slain by archers, for instance.”

Guildmaster (or Guildmistress) Assassin has 7-28 guild members. When Leadership changes 75% for each to leave the area. New recruits are all 1st level assassins. Maximum number is set by referee. This is in addition to normal henchmen. “Guild members are loyal only to strength, power, and profit.” The headquarters must be in a large town or city and neither “noticeable or ostentatious (typically a warehouse or nondescript structure with safeguards and traps added).” All non-guild master expenses are paid for by normal activity. “Any improvements, changes, leader expenses, and other special costs must be borne by the Guildmaster”. Grandfather (or mother) of Assassins headquarters may be in any form anywhere (cavern, castle, monastery, palace, temple, you name it). “If it is a large and obvious place, the HQ must be located well away from all communities – such as in the midst of a murky woods, a dismal marsh or fen, a lonely moor, a deserted island, a remote coast, at far into forsaken hills or atop a mountain. Upon attaining the headship of all assassins, the new Grandfather or Grandmother must pay all remaining followers of the former head 1000 GP each of their experience levels, destroy the old HQ, and construct a new one somewhere else.”