Assay Spell Resistance

[zlorf]

Hi,

What do people think of this spell from Spell Compendium:
Assay Spell Resistance (4th lvl Cleric)
Divination
Level: Cleric 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Components : V, S
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Taget: You
Duration 1 round/level

Finishing the spell, you eyes glow with a pale blue radiance, and you understand how to
overcome your foe's restance to your magic.

This spell gives you a +10 bonus on caster lvl checks to overcome the spell resistance of
a specific creature. Assay resistance is effective against only one specific creature per casting, and you must be able to see the creature when you cast the spell.


My feeling is that it bypasses one ability that is SR that many monsters CR's are based on
and without it weakens them considerability. Yes the spell has some limitation, but in most circumstances it will work. Yes i can add 2 monsters with SR and make one invis etc to not make the spell as effective. A 12 lvl cleric will automatically bypass the SR or need a low roll to bypass for most monsters that have a SR for someone of that level.

Apart from feats is this the only way to increase your caster lvl checks?

A +5 bonus for this to you caster lvl would still be attractive and maybe more balance.

Comments anyone?

Cheers
Z

 

[Doug McCrae]

Assay resistance changes the game, but otoh spell resistance is annoying.

 

[Nail]

What do people think of this spell from Spell Compendium:
Assay Spell Resistance

We've used the spell in-game, up to 23rd level PCs. The spell is effective...but not a game-breaker. As you point out, it's only useful against 1 creature, and of course that one creature still gets a saving throw.

...and it's vulnerable to Dispel Magic.

Really, the spell just allows the spell-slinger to do his schtick, rather than let the Ftr handle it.

 

[zlorf]

The monster get a saving throw? Against the spell? How?

Cheers
Zlorf

We've used the spell in-game, up to 23rd level PCs. The spell is effective...but not a game-breaker. As you point out, it's only useful against 1 creature, and of course that one creature still gets a saving throw.

...and it's vulnerable to Dispel Magic.

Really, the spell just allows the spell-slinger to do his schtick, rather than let the Ftr handle it.

 

[Nail]

The monster get a saving throw? Against the spell? How?

Monsters don't get a save vs. Assay Resistance.

Monsters *do* get a save against most spells you throw at them that also have "SR = yes". Assay Resistance doesn't remove the save, just the SR.

 

[Felon]

My feeling is that it bypasses one ability that is SR that many monsters CR's are based on and without it weakens them considerability. Yes the spell has some limitation, but in most circumstances it will work. Yes i can add 2 monsters with SR and make one invis etc to not make the spell as effective. A 12 lvl cleric will automatically bypass the SR or need a low roll to bypass for most monsters that have a SR for someone of that level.

Apart from feats is this the only way to increase your caster lvl checks?

A +5 bonus for this to you caster lvl would still be attractive and maybe more balance.

Comments anyone?

Cheers
Z

There are no real balance problems with it as-is. Monsters have defenses, and characters are often built to circumvent them. Damage reduction is a classic example of a defense that's bypassed more often than it's endured. Heck, there are so many conjuration school spells now that don't allow spell resistance that an evoker has good reason to feel bitter about having to use up a 4th-level slot on Assay Resistance. +5? That would stink.

There are a number of ways to increase caster level checks. There's True Casting from Complete Mage (1st-level spell that adds +10 to a single SR penetration check), and there's a 3rd-level spell in Spell Compendium that subtracts your caster level from a creature's SR (it allows a Will save though). In addition, anything you can do to ratchet up your caster level in general can boost SR penetration. Magic items, feats (particularly reserve feats), and PrC features (Master Specialist, Elemental Savant) can all do this.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Well, I don't like Spell Resistance as a mechanic, but I think concerns about this spell are valid, primarily because some other parts of D&D (level adjustments, CRs for certain monsters, etc) seem to have been designed with the idea that Spell Resistance can't be trivially circumvented. For example, in a game world where lots of casters have this spell, Mind Flayers and Ropers are over-CRed, and the Drow's +2 level adjustment seems too high. Also, taking Spell Penetration or Greater Spell Penetration becomes a really poor feat choice.

I know that when I run a wizard I'll always want this spell, without exception. The fact that it's a swift action is just gravy.

Think about it this way. Would the spell be viable at 4th level if

1) it wasn't a swift action
or
2) it lasted 1 round, instead of 1rnd/level?

I think it would.

So, I'd say that it should be 5th level, or or be limited in one of these two ways. And that 1st level spell that gives +10 to a single attemt to overcome SR is overpowered, too.

Ken

 

[Felon]

Well, I don't like Spell Resistance as a mechanic, but I think concerns about this spell are valid, primarily because some other parts of D&D (level adjustments, CRs for certain monsters, etc) seem to have been designed with the idea that Spell Resistance can't be trivially circumvented. For example, in a game world where lots of casters have this spell, Mind Flayers and Ropers are over-CRed, and the Drow's +2 level adjustment seems too high.

Not a big fan of reiteration, but...let's forget what ideas other parts of D&D are designed with and confront the reality: Spell Resistance is trivially circumvented. Summon monster, elbemental orbs, melf's acid arrow, arc of lightning, blast of flame, and any number of other SR-ignoring spells make it simplicity. All this spell does is put lightning bolt back in the running.

Also, taking Spell Penetration or Greater Spell Penetration becomes a really poor feat choice.

Can't say it's a very compelling arguement to suggest that a spell (or some other mechanic) is an overpowered option because it could infringe on the near-monopoly that a feat (or some other mechanic) previously had.

There is a rather egregious assumption here that Assay Resistance requires a meager cost, that it can always be at hand just like Spell Penetration. 4th-level spells are just sand off a beach? Every time you fight a monster with SR, this spell would have to be recast. I don't see the niche for Spell Pen disappearing, just shrinking.

I know that when I run a wizard I'll always want this spell, without exception. The fact that it's a swift action is just gravy.

Think about it this way. Would the spell be viable at 4th level if

1) it wasn't a swift action
or
2) it lasted 1 round, instead of 1rnd/level?

Maybe I'm not playing enough 20th-level characters these days, but...no, it would stink if it only lasted a round. Expend a 4th-level spell just to improve the chance of making an SR check? That's poop.

 

[Drowbane]

Assay resistance changes the game, but otoh spell resistance is annoying.

QTF

Our planescape party has two characters with a one level dip in Marshal with the Aura "determined caster"... add Cha mod to overcome SR (no, they don't stack, but often enough the party is spread out enough to be using either one or the other's aura). In our case that is a +15 or +10 vs SR... that stacks with the likes of Assay SR.

Good times.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I feel it is a cheap attempt to bypass SR, trivialising one of the mechanics that is supposed to make many high CR creatures difficult to fight.

It is even worse than any silly new conjuration spells which do masses of damage and 'oh, ignore SR because it is conjuration'.

That's my opinion.