Assess the Striker

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually that makes the executioner the only good hybrid... (although rogue/ranger can easily get 2 attacks for most rounds in combat...) And as long as the executioner is the only class with that bonus, no problem.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Actually that makes the executioner the only good hybrid... (although rogue/ranger can easily get 2 attacks for most rounds in combat...) And as long as the executioner is the only class with that bonus, no problem.

Oh nonsense. A Ranger|Lazy Warlord hybrid is an absolute top tier striker while getting decent healing. A TWF Ranger|Battle Cleric hybrid gets Scale for free, healing, makes monster-sushi like a ranger, and has cleric dailies and healing.

There are plenty of good hybrids out there - you just need to abuse the action economy.

Edit: what it means is that an Executioner Warlock is a better Executioner than an Executioner. Far more damage. And that's just depressing.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Does not really matter. Battle cleric hybrid should be restricted to only give scale profiency when you have chain mail proficiency.

Executioner hybrid beeing better than a normal executioner (which I am not so sure about because you really lack the underrated take down a foe in one shot thing) is not relevant as the question is if the hybrid is better than the average striker...

and most striker/striker combinations don´t offer a lot.

 

[pemerton]

I think there are more underlying problems with the group. When two out of five players intentionally are playing bad, it seems like they're having a bit of a unstated protest and hoping to move back to another system. Perhaps a group discussion will do more good than changing characters.

Agreed. This is what I was trying to get at with my posts upthread.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ooooooor there is a conflict of playstyle within the group, or between the players & the system. Remember, the OP categorized one player's style as always gimping his PCs. He may not be acting in a passive-aggressive fashion.

 

[corwyn77]

I could be wrong, but I don't know any rule saying that basic attacks can use hybrid striker abilities. I would not consider then class attacks unless they come from that class's power list. Non-hybrids are not specifically restricted, so can use striker abilities on basic attacks. But if anyone can direct me to contrary RAW, I'll stand corrected.

Yep, a complete misreading/misremembering of the hybrid rules; don't know where that came from.

Eldritch blast is an arcane implement ranged basic attack of the warlock power list, so could in no way qualify for sneak attack damage from a rogue-lock hybrid.

Well, that's why I didn't mention EB.

 

[jbear]

My two cents:

New to the game = sure, I'll go easy while you get your head around it. During that period I'll ask if they want advice or examples of possible options available, or how they could work together to synthesise better. Once that period is over, off come the gloves.

And I tell them when that happens. Explicitly.

I wouldn't kill them deliberately. But I wouldn't tone down the game because they are crap players.

High expectations will give you better results. Let them sort the rest out.

Edit: Just had an idea. You could have different NPCs come and go related to their background. An NPC defender to model good defender tactics. A warlock/rogue hybrid to model good striker combos and expected damage output.
They can come, hang around for 2 or 3 fights and go. See if that sparks any improvement or at least curiosity to improve their play.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You could also encourage your players to confab about team tactics. You know, like how the X-Men Colossus & Wolverine invented the Fastball Special...

I personally initiated this as a player, not a DM. That's how I figured out that some of my powers would result in huge advantages to the Rogue, so I used those when he was nearest a target within my range. That is how I decided between 3 similar powers when my PC leveled- it increased the damage a target took from fire attacks, and several PCs in the party have fire attacks....like the Fighter with his flaming axe...

 

[SensoryThought]

Certainly the Executioner Assassin gets his bonus damage to melee basic attacks. But I think he's the only one - making this a poorly designed hybrid (say it ain't so!).

The executioner's finesse attack bonus can apply to basic attacks and assassin powers only if using assassin weapons. I guess if you can get a character who uses an implement that is also a assassin weapon you can deal both on a MBA. Very clever rules lawyering.

I would still argue Eldrich blast is a ranged basic attack so Executioner bonus damage should not apply going by RAW.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The executioner's finesse attack bonus can apply to basic attacks and assassin powers only if using assassin weapons. I guess if you can get a character who uses an implement that is also a assassin weapon you can deal both on a MBA. Very clever rules lawyering.

I would still argue Eldrich blast is a ranged basic attack so Executioner bonus damage should not apply going by RAW.

You mean assassin weapons like any one handed weapon. And you don't go for Eldritch Blast with Warlocks. You go for Eldritch Strike.