OSR At What Level Is Survivability Possible?

[Snarf Zagyg]

-10 hp was in AD&D but not in B/X which OSE replicates.

Technically, "-10 hp" was not AD&D.

There was a rule in the DMG labeled "Zero Hit Points" (p. 82) that if you were knocked down to exactly 0 hp ("optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0") you weren't dead, but unconscious. And then you would lose hit points until -10, when you died.

This rule, through misunderstandings and urban legend, morphed at some tables into the "-10hp" rule that some people played with, but it was only every supposed to deal with the edge case of being reduced to exactly zero hit points.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I’m still a little stuck on the statement: “5e equates to having to look at your character sheet more then in prior editions.”

ummm....ok.....I don’t believe that to be true.... a 1e character sheet

This isn't about 1e. This is about B/X.

I'd also quibble slightly with the remainder regarding 1e; THAC0 only became widespread with 2e, for example. Most of 1e used tables (that were in a DM's screen) so a lot of things could be accomplished with little player-side system knowledge and just rolling.

 

[S'mon]

Technically, "-10 hp" was not AD&D.

There was a rule in the DMG labeled "Zero Hit Points" (p. 82) that if you were knocked down to exactly 0 hp ("optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0") you weren't dead, but unconscious. And then you would lose hit points until -10, when you died.

This rule, through misunderstandings and urban legend, morphed at some tables into the "-10hp" rule that some people played with, but it was only every supposed to deal with the edge case of being reduced to exactly zero hit points.

I actually read it that no blow could reduce a character below -3 hp, and dying started there, ending at -10! I think your interpretation is likely As Gygax Intended, but so much context is left unsaid, on its own the section is extremely unclear.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I actually read it that no blow could reduce a character below -3 hp, and dying started there, ending at -10! I think your interpretation is likely As Gygax Intended, but so much context is left unsaid, on its own the section is extremely unclear.

Here it is-

Zero Hit Points:

When any creature is brought to 0 hit points (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until -10 is reached and the creature dies.


This is really not one of the vague rules in AD&D. TBH, I think that it's one of those things where the "urban legend" rule became more common than the actual rule, especially because the urban legend of -10hp is a lot more forgiving.

 

[Todd Roybark]

I'd also quibble slightly with the remainder regarding 1e; THAC0 only became widespread with 2e,

To quibble with your quibble, (), my omnibus Queen of Spiders was published in 1986, and lists THACO in the entries....3 years before 2e.

Now the omnibus Temple of Elemental Evil, released in 1985 does not have THACO listed.

THACO, in my slice of the world was hungrily, eagerly adopted....well before 2e.

 

[S'mon]

Here it is-

Zero Hit Points:

When any creature is brought to 0 hit points (optionally as low as -3 hit points if from the same blow which brought the total to 0), it is unconscious. In each of the next succeeding rounds 1 additional (negative) point will be lost until -10 is reached and the creature dies.


This is really not one of the vague rules in AD&D. TBH, I think that it's one of those things where the "urban legend" rule became more common than the actual rule, especially because the urban legend of -10hp is a lot more forgiving.

As I said, to me it was saying you could optionally fall as low as -3 hp from positive hp. As opposed to always being at 0 hp. So optionally 7 rounds to die instead of default 10 rounds.

I had no other source than the DMG for forming this opinion. The section does not say "otherwise you're dead" - that needs to be implied in from I think the PHB. But PHB and DMG contradict in places.

 

[S'mon]

To quibble with your quibble, (), my omnibus Queen of Spiders was published in 1986, and lists THACO in the entries....3 years before 2e.

Now the omnibus Temple of Elemental Evil, released in 1985 does not have THACO listed.

THACO, in my slice of the world was hungrily, eagerly adopted....well before 2e.

THAC0 for monsters is in the 1e DMG - 1979?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

To quibble with your quibble, (), my omnibus Queen of Spiders was published in 1986, and lists THACO in the entries....3 years before 2e.

Now the omnibus Temple of Elemental Evil, released in 1985 does not have THACO listed.

THACO, in my slice of the world was hungrily, eagerly adopted....well before 2e.

Oh, don't get me wrong! THAC0 not only exists in some modules for the critters, it was in a table in the appendix the DMG! And I believe it was used by some hobbyists in the 70s for OD&D, although maybe not referred to by that name?

It's just that it wasn't on character sheets- not the official ones. It wasn't a common (PC) thing until 2e.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

As I said, to me it was saying you could optionally fall as low as -3 hp from positive hp. As opposed to always being at 0 hp. So optionally 7 rounds to die instead of default 10 rounds.

PHB p. 105:

"Damage is meted out in hit points. If any creature reaches 0 or negative hit points, it is dead."

The DMG was an additional rule in the hit point section regarding exactly 0 hit points.

 

[Voadam]

http://knowdirectionpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/GoldenrodADDsheet.jpg

Oh, don't get me wrong! THAC0 not only exists in some modules for the critters, it was in a table in the appendix the DMG! And I believe it was used by some hobbyists in the 70s for OD&D, although maybe not referred to by that name?

It's just that it wasn't on character sheets- not the official ones. It wasn't a common (PC) thing until 2e.

The official 1e AD&D character sheets had an area to put in your Adjusted to hit AC X chart for various weapons so a Player could look at his sheet after rolling and tell the DM what AC he hit.

So did the B/X Character sheet: