OSR At What Level Is Survivability Possible?

[Snarf Zagyg]

http://knowdirectionpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/GoldenrodADDsheet.jpg

The official 1e AD&D character sheets had an area to put in your Adjusted to hit AC X chart for various weapons so a Player could look at his sheet after rolling and tell the DM what AC he hit.

The adjusted to hit AC is for the weapon adjustments to particular armor classes, not THAC0.*

You played AD&D, right? That was the thing that almost no one used because it was super-fiddly.

So did the B/X Character sheet:

Again, because it was assuming a table, not THAC0. If you had THAC0, you wouldn't have a list of armor classes .... you get that, right?



*EDIT: In case it was unclear to you, that's why it goes to AC2 (Plate + Shield) and not AC0.


Second addition: More importantly, what is on neither character sheet, as I stated? Hit: It rhymes with Wakko, of the Animaniacs.

 

[smetzger]

sigh

The adjusted to hit AC is for the weapon adjustments to particular armor classes, not THAC0.*

You played AD&D, right?

I actually used those weapon adjustments. One of the dragon magazines had a cardboard cutout. You could look up the your level, the weapon and the AC and it would show you what you needed to roll. It was a game changer for me.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I actually used those weapon adjustments. One of the dragon magazines had a cardboard cutout. You could look up the your level, the weapon and the AC and it would show you what you needed to roll. It was a game changer for me.

I have almost never met a person who used the weapon adjustments! So, pleasure to meet you.

But .... it did make the diversity of weapons a lot more interesting! Some weapons (staff, jo stick) were nearly useless against heavy armor, while suddenly the two-handed sword (and the flail!) became a lot better.

 

[Ath-kethin]

-10 hp was in AD&D but not in B/X which OSE replicates.

Sure. But the name to the game is use what you want. And those are some rules that both have precedent in OSR/older games and can maybe help the OP with their situation.

 

[Ath-kethin]

But those really were exceptions to the rule. Most of the PCs in my campaigns had long successful adventuring careers.

Most of mine as well. In fact, the biggest scandal I can recall was when a PC, pregnant with a half-dragon, was badly injured by a giant porcupine. I had the player roll a saving throw for the child, and the roll was a success so I ruled that the baby was fine. That was in 1995, and the other players from that campaign still gripe about it.

Did I mention the PC in question was my girlfriend at the time? That might be relevant here.

One thing my players never really got into back in the day was using hirelings. Most wanted to play heroes and go on adventures, not manage a bunch of paid flunkies.

I don't recall ever playing with hirelings, but we did on occasion hit Name level and have apprentices and such. It totally became a different game at that point; some liked it and some didn't.

 

[Libramarian]

For a death save I've been using "roll over your negative HP on your HD to survive". So if a Fighter is reduced to -3 HP, they have to roll 4+ on d8. A Thief or Magic-User would have to roll 4 on d4.

This roll is made after the battle is over (or whenever the other PCs have a chance to crowd around and respectfully remove helmets).

If fail, the wounds are mortal and the PC will expire after last words. If success, the PC is at 0 HP and can be healed from there.

(It feels better to wait until after the battle to roll the death save. It seems realistic also; apparently grievous arterial wounds don't actually bleed much until some time later, when the surrounding musculature begins to relax).

 

[smetzger]

I have almost never met a person who used the weapon adjustments! So, pleasure to meet you.

But .... it did make the diversity of weapons a lot more interesting! Some weapons (staff, jo stick) were nearly useless against heavy armor, while suddenly the two-handed sword (and the flail!) became a lot better.

Yes, the Footman's Flail..... My cleric/fighter got a +2 one from Assassin's Knot. Even with my -2 non prof penalty it was put to good use.

 

[Voadam]

Looks like Snarf's right, I had used those to hit parts in the AD&D one as plotting out attack rolls for things like +2 longsword compared to longbow or melee dagger versus thrown, but the phrasing and AC range fits the horrible 1e PH attack roll adjustment chart.

I tried using that AC adjustment chart for a little while until I realized it was executed poorly from a conceptual level and slowed down combat more than I wanted. It looked like it tried to include accounting for adjustments against different types of armor with or without shields but it in fact did not account for the fact that shields can be there or not across the AC range from 3 to 7 by combining with different armors. If they had broken out adjustments against shields separately or not at all it would have been a cumbersome mechanic, but it would have been a match of mechanics to the concept.

However I am pretty glad I did plug in the numbers the various weapons would need to hit various ACs on the AD&D character sheets the way it was done on the Basic ones. That was much more helpful at the table than doing more math on the fly with just the AC 0 target that only listing THAC0 would have given.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Yeah, that happened in my one campaign, and the whole group gave it a shot, then said "can we go back to the sorts of adventures we were playing before, rather than managing castles and armies?"

I don't recall ever playing with hirelings, but we did on occasion hit Name level and have apprentices and such. It totally became a different game at that point; some liked it and some didn't.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Yeah, that happened in my one campaign, and the whole group gave it a shot, then said "can we go back to the sorts of adventures we were playing before, rather than managing castles and armies?"

It was rare that ours made it there, but luckily back when I was in high school we had a big group that included 4 or 5 people regularly running games. That meant we had tons of campaigns and characters and options going on, and it also meant that we were all playing upwards of 3-4 campaigns simultaneously, plus one shots and such.

And THAT meant that there was room for many different kinds of campaigns. So the ones that DID go high enough allowed is to explore the different high-level rules. Though of course more than one ended up with the PCs appointing regents to rule in their stead so they could continue the adventuring life. And some campaigns just collapsed, as happens.