At what point do players know they're fighting Minions?

[Garthanos]

I don't know. I've had some mi-T-fine free tacos in my time.

and heck somebody else made it makes tacos better ;-)... I dont get much out of that particular challenge...but my pancakes and waffles are usually superior.

 

[Flipguarder]

I personally love the idea of my players using minor actions in the first round of battle to make perception or insight checks to determine minion status.

 

[DracoSuave]

I personally love the idea of my players using minor actions in the first round of battle to make perception or insight checks to determine minion status.

*cough monster knowledge checks cough*

 

[DracoSuave]

Challenge is good?

I don't know, I guess we just differ on this topic. I feel like being a good DM is just as much about making the players BE awesome as it is making them FEEL awesome. Pushing players to use their entire mind while playing is more admirable and rewarding to me than throwing a bunch of fodder for them to waste their time on. There is a time and place for fodder, I just think its less often then not.

After all, a taco is good. But a taco you worked 10 minutes to get is better.

Yes, but minions are not the tacos of 4th edition. They are more the M&Ms of the D&D game.

And an M&M I spent 10 minutes to get to and pop in my mouth had better have an attractive naked woman attached or it's not worth it.

The point being, that giving the players -clues- to minion status is fine, but concealing minions for no reason other than 'it's challenging, use your brains' is going a bit too far. It's like childproofing the cap on your toothpaste or deoderant. It's like putting a randomized combination lock on your collection of paper plates. It's making access to something that is individually mundane more difficult just for the sake of more difficulty.

Challenge, mystery, difficult problem solving HAS its place in the encounter, I WILL agree. Just not on the most insignifigant and mundane aspect of the encounter. Make the focus the stronger monsters -as it should be-. Put the mystery there.

 

[Garthanos]

*cough monster knowledge checks cough*

Does anybody have a cool skinning of Dungeoneering?... I hate the name of that, I retain strong anti-dungeon attitudes

 

[DracoSuave]

Does anybody have a cool skinning of Dungeoneering?... I hate the name of that, I retain strong anti-dungeon attitudes

I know of a Dwarven Druid that calls it 'Wilderness Lore.'

'Cavern Ken' sound cool?

 

[Garthanos]

I know of a Dwarven Druid that calls it 'Wilderness Lore.'

'Cavern Ken' sound cool?

Wilderness lore associated with Dwarven has not too bad of twist.

Spelunking doesn't sound too awesome either eh.

 

[FireLance]

At this point, I'm convinced that both the challenge of determining which enemies are minions and the value of knowing which enemies are minions are overstated. Do whatever you want; unless you have very strong opinions either way (and remember, they are your opinions) I doubt it will make much of a difference to your game.

 

[DracoSuave]

Wilderness lore associated with Dwarven has not too bad of twist.

Spelunking doesn't sound too awesome either eh.

Cavern and Cairn Kenning!

 

[Garthanos]

Cavern and Cairn Kenning!

Say that three times... I like poetry more than most...
but mispell and put it down as kkk. arrrrggghh need some sleep.