At will teleport and other 4th ed player fun

[Li Shenron]

It looks like these problems may be the result of a very good attention paid to encounters when designing the game, and a near-total disregard to what happens between encounters. (I don't know about the designers, but there ARE quite a bunch of gamers that believe that only combat needs rules, and everything else can just go rule-light).

If I understand right, encounter abilities become effectively at-will when you're not in an encounter. Or has there been some info about the opposite, that you may not use encounter abilities unless you're in an encounter?

 

[Ximenes088]

Encounter abilities become once-every-five-minutes abilities out of an encounter, as far as I know. And given that the DMG promises guidelines for making traps and social situations into encounters, I can't see a lot of situations where you're not effectively limited in your use of these abilities. Sure, go ahead and teleport out of your jail cell, in the unlikely case that your jailers leave you capable of doing so. You've just entered the "Escape the Jail" encounter, and you're dry until you've gotten out or gotten killed while escaping.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

It looks like these problems may be the result of a very good attention paid to encounters when designing the game, and a near-total disregard to what happens between encounters. (I don't know about the designers, but there ARE quite a bunch of gamers that believe that only combat needs rules, and everything else can just go rule-light).

If I understand right, encounter abilities become effectively at-will when you're not in an encounter. Or has there been some info about the opposite, that you may not use encounter abilities unless you're in an encounter?

I think this specific works only for using Healing Surges to heal yourself. Everything else is assumed to take 5 minutes to replenish.
Basically, the philosophy/design theory behind it is "Per Encounter", actual implementation is "Per 5 minute rest".

 

[Xorn]

I anticipate answering this question on June 6th. Maybe June 7th if I don't get to that crunchy bit quick enough.

However, I have taken off June 6th and June 9th from work, so I'll have a day to devote to each book, and then a day to convince my fiance not to leave me.

 

[LostSoul]

It looks like these problems may be the result of a very good attention paid to encounters when designing the game, and a near-total disregard to what happens between encounters. (I don't know about the designers, but there ARE quite a bunch of gamers that believe that only combat needs rules, and everything else can just go rule-light).

If I understand right, encounter abilities become effectively at-will when you're not in an encounter. Or has there been some info about the opposite, that you may not use encounter abilities unless you're in an encounter?

I think one of the issues is that we don't know exactly what an encounter is, and what the rules around when something is an encounter and when it's not. I think this is important and I think the designers will put some rules around "this is when you engage the mechanics, and this is when you don't."

I also think it's going to require a conceptual shift for some people.

Right now, I am looking at things like this:

If what's going on in the game doesn't matter*, it's not an encounter. It's just colour/fluff. Describe stuff happening to your heart's content.

If it does matter, then it is an encounter, and the per-encounter guidelines are going to apply.

* How I answer the question "does this matter" is to ask: Is there a conflict between a PC and another character (including an obstacle, like a trap/natural hazard) in the game? If so, it matters, and we are in an encounter; if no, then we're not in an encounter.

Another way to look at it might be to ask, "Is there any risk to the PCs here? If so, we're in an encounter."

 

[lukelightning]

This is what is confusing me about 4e. They made a big point about making flight difficult and rare for various (and justifiable) reasons. Then they go and give out teleportation to first-level characters.

Call me old fashioned, but I think that teleportation, even short-ranged, is the sort of effect that should be out of the reach of low-level characters. They took out low-level flight because it will make it too easy to bypass encounters/obstacles... and how does teleportation not do this? You can teleport across a pit. Teleport through a door (if you need line-of-sight, just drill a hole in it or peek through the keyhole). Teleport out of jail. Plus, fluff-wise, I think the ability to transfer yourself through dimensions is something that should be reserved for higher level characters.

 

[LostSoul]

This is what is confusing me about 4e. They made a big point about making flight difficult and rare for various (and justifiable) reasons. Then they go and give out teleportation to first-level characters.

Flight is better in combat than a short-range teleport.

I don't think either one is better at overcoming encounters - though we'll have to see how non-skill mechanics (powers, speed, hit points, etc.) interact with skill checks.

 

[frankthedm]

Points of light to me generally means frontier justice. A murderer that has been seen teleporting is getting put into a noose, not a jail unless there is a really good reason to keep him alive.

 

[FourthBear]

The last thread I recall on this subject, someone suggested that the teleport keyword description would address many of these concerns. I believe that one of the WotC submitters came on and confirmed that this was true. So I suspect that default teleportation is not the same as the old Dimension Door/Teleport without Error spells. My guess is that by default teleporting when immobilized isn't possible and that you need line of sight/effect. More powerful versions of teleportation may exist that overcome these restrictions, but they would be specifically called out in the power description. My main hanging questions are: can you use teleportation to avoid pits, cliffs and similar obstacles and can you teleport past a jail door or through a window?

 

[Aservan]

I think flight is out of early games because it is open ended. Teleport from what we have seen is not. Flight invalidates things like jumping and falling. It makes it so that you can get on top of the 100 foot cliff no problem.

The teleports we have seen won't necessarily do this. The Eladrin can't move 100 feet in one jump and neither can the warlock. It is still an impassible barrier. Teleport doesn't say that it can change momentum which means a falling character who teleports only shortens the length of his fall he doesn't avoid it entirely. Low level monks have been able to do that at will for a long time now.

Granted teleporting is pretty cool, but if it wasn't then why have the power? The idea is still to play people who can do stuff we mundane losers can't right?

My guess is that teleporting will slowly get more powerful (from leveling) until it approaches the awesome levels of previous editions and comic books. If it bugs you that much that players will use it whenever they have the chance fix it.

If jail cells are constantly dealing with obnoxious/murderous Eladrin then make the town's ritualist NPC cast a dimensional lock on the jail cell. Then there is no need for chains, just some burning entrails (or whatever) once a month. I mean if teleporting is available to just about every fey race then so should anti-fey rituals. There is even justification in old wives tales about the fey in our world.