Atoning a Vampire?

[DragonShadow]

Jumping in, totally agreeing with Hypersmurf.

Why shouldn't it be possible to set off the DE radar because of your creature type, but not be affected by it because of your personal alignment? It all boils down to flavor and the discretion of the DM, of course, but I think that it's possible.

Sure, it can be argued that, because the negative energy that causes a goodly aligned undead to read as Evil, it would be the energy that was affected by Smite, which would essentially undo the creature. However, why shouldn't it's own personal alignment come into play?

Let's think of it this way: A goodly aligned undead creature would show up with Detect Evil, and possibly be in danger of Smite, but would be braced against it (Saving throw) better than normal, evil undead. That's likely how I would handle the situation.

 

[Spatzimaus]

That means that a paladin's Detect Evil and Smite Evil are not complementary abilities - that is, just because you can detect it as evil does not mean you can smite it as evil.

But that's never been the case, even if you ignore non-evil Undead. Sure, MOST of the things that Detect Evil can also be smited, but there's always been several cases that violated this:
> Neutral clerics of an evil deity
> a non-evil character who has been enchanted with a spell containing the [Evil] descriptor
> Someone carrying an evil item (unless the Paladin waits three rounds to identify the exact location of the evil, AND can differentiate the person from the item; if I'm wearing full-body evil plate armor, how does he do that?)
And then there's the whole Lingering Aura issue.

Detect Evil is a powerful spell, detecting many "marginally evil" situations; in a lot of ways it's more like "Detect NonGood". Smite Evil is far more specific, explicitly only allowing evil creatures. The two aren't identical, and I think it improves the class. After all, just because someone detects as evil doesn't mean it's okay for the Paladin to attack them, but that's another discussion.

 

[jgsugden]

That means that a paladin's Detect Evil and Smite Evil are not complementary abilities - that is, just because you can detect it as evil does not mean you can smite it as evil.

Wow - surely that's not what the designers had in mind.

It is what they wrote. I won't claim to have any idea what goes on in their minds. And don't call me Shirley.

Detect evil detects things that *are* evil and things that are strongly *associated* with evil (like neutral clerics of evil Gods and undead). Smite evil works only against the first subset of the creatures detected by detect evil - creatures that *are* evil.

The books are clear. It may not make sense to you with your current mindset, but it is clear.

As for the original subject, in a black & white alignment 'world' like the core D&D setting rules, I do not think a vampire can be atoned within the core rules without stretching the rules quite a bit. If the 'unable to change alignment' category was intended to include anything, undead listed as 'always evil' seem to be a prime candidate. If you have a storyline you wish to accomplish (perhaps to fill the void left in your heart by the absence of 'Angel' on tv after this season), I suggest breaking the rules/making up some new rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But that's never been the case, even if you ignore non-evil Undead. Sure, MOST of the things that Detect Evil can also be smited, but there's always been several cases that violated this:

Misdirection spell's another one.

-Hyp.