Attack of Opportunity during an attack of opportunity?

[Majere]

This just occured to me:

Hypersmurf:
"The Attack (Melee) action is not a melee attack. It is a standard action that allows you to make a single melee attack."

Even by hypersmurfs interpretation this is wrong.
When sundering, you dont make a melee attack roll, you make an opposed roll.

Can Hypersmurf, explain why, if sunder is a standard action that does not involve a melee atack (his interpretation), they call it a melee attack ?
It certainly isnt because you can take a melee atack with the action, because sundering is an opossed roll.

I think this is evidence in favour of my assertion that sunder is a melee attack, and not a standard action.

Majere

 

[Hypersmurf]

When sundering, you dont make a melee attack roll, you make an opposed roll.

It's an opposed melee attack roll...

-Hyp.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Just to remind everyone that Sunder is not listed as exchangable with a melee attack as disarm/grapple/trip are.

Futhermore the text does not read, 'As a melee attack' or 'is like a melee attack'. Instead it reads, 'you can use a melee attack'. This is to remind people that you can't do it with neither a ranged attack nor an unarmed attack*. Just as you can't use piercing weapons to Sunder with.



*Unless you are considered armed with unarmed attacks, naturally.

 

[Majere]

It's an opposed melee attack roll...

-Hyp.

Now you are just making these terms up.
Where in the rules is that defined as meaning anything ?

Majere

 

[AGGEMAM]

Now you are just making these terms up.
Where in the rules is that defined as meaning anything ?

It's important if the subject of the sunder is holding a ranged weapon ...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now you are just making these terms up.
Where in the rules is that defined as meaning anything ?

"You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons."

"You can use a melee attack with..."

Therefore, your opposed attack roll is required to be a melee attack roll.

What bonuses do you apply to your opposed roll? The same bonuses you would apply to a melee attack. Because that's what you're using when you take the Sunder standard action.

-Hyp.

 

[Majere]

"You and the defender make opposed attack rolls with your respective weapons."

"You can use a melee attack with..."

Therefore, your opposed attack roll is required to be a melee attack roll.

What bonuses do you apply to your opposed roll? The same bonuses you would apply to a melee attack. Because that's what you're using when you take the Sunder standard action.
-Hyp.

So you were making the term "opposed melee roll" up
Its an opposed roll.
Its not an opossed melee roll or why do you add +4 for a large weapon ?

Im afraid Im still not convinced in the slightest by your argument and you still havent adressesed why they dont explicitally state it is an action in the text.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Im afraid Im still not convinced in the slightest by your argument and you still havent adressesed why they dont explicitally state it is an action in the text.

It doesn't need to. Eg Smite Evil doesn't either.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In 3.5 that's called the Withdraw action, which is a single full round action. I suppose someone could go ahead and take two single move actions in a turn, but technically they would not be protected against an AoO from the first square they leave.

Just thought of another situation where you would use two Move actions instead of a Withdraw - Readying.

If you move 30 feet past an opponent (provoking an AoO), and then Ready an Action (If the BBEG comes around that corner, I'm moving back!) to Move past the same opponent, then even though the two moves are unambiguously two separate actions, only one AoO is provoked.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So you were making the term "opposed melee roll" up
Its an opposed roll.
Its not an opossed melee roll or why do you add +4 for a large weapon ?

It's an opposed attack roll. This is stated in the text.

It's a melee attack roll, because you must use a melee attack to Sunder. If you are using Power Attack that round, for example, then your Power Attack number must be subtracted from your Sunder roll, because it is subtracted from all melee attack rolls you make in a round.

Size modifiers are included in your total because this is the rule when Sundering.

So your melee attack roll (including size modifiers) is opposed by your opponent's melee attack roll (including size modifiers).

A melee attack roll opposed by a melee attack roll constitutes an opposed melee attack roll...

-Hyp.