Attacking Someone Who Is Being Grappled

[DrSpunj]

It is the old "I'll hold him, you hit him" routine.

Please focus on the bolded part of your quoted statement there, argo. What combat mechanic in the 3.x rules set do you think most people would agree best exemplifies a wrestling Hold?

I'd be interested to see; maybe we should do a poll. To me, it's being Pinned! You've got the guy under your control so he can't really avoid your buddy knifin'im.

But I agree with your last paragraph. It doesn't have to be people rolling around like fish out of water, but if your grappling target isn't pinned, what's to prevent him from trying to avoid the blow that's coming? And better for him yet, why wouldn't he twist and turn so his grappling opponent may get hit instead? That's very cinematic to me! How many movies and stories and whatnot describe the hero wrestling with one foe while another moves in to stab him or fire a gun or something, then at the last moment the hero uses his wrestling foe as a shield from that attack?

Anyway, I can see both sides, I just prefer using the Bull Rush mechanic. Whatever works for your game!

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[0-hr]

Remember, grappling does not have to mean that the two of you are rolling around on the ground like a couple of fish out of water.

Actually, the rules rather imply that you are NOT rolling around on the ground when grappling. There are no "prone" modifiers involved and you don't have to stand up after getting out of a grapple. You are just grappling, both in your normal vertical position. Seems like a great time for a buddy to come up and stick the guy you are struggling with.



Do the rules cover what happens when a rogue throws a dagger into the grapple? Sure, he rolls randomly to see who (if anyone) is hit, but then which of the following applies:

1) No matter who is hit, they take sneak attack damage.
2) No matter who is hit, they do not take sneak attack damage.
3) If the intended target is hit, he takes sneak attack damage but otherwise the target does not take sneak attack damage.



Opinions are great and all, but is there anything in the book about it?

 

[Caliban]

Do the rules cover what happens when a rogue throws a dagger into the grapple? Sure, he rolls randomly to see who (if anyone) is hit, but then which of the following applies:

1) No matter who is hit, they take sneak attack damage.
2) No matter who is hit, they do not take sneak attack damage.
3) If the intended target is hit, he takes sneak attack damage but otherwise the target does not take sneak attack damage.



Opinions are great and all, but is there anything in the book about it?

Well, by the core rules a rogue does sneak attack damage anytime their target is denied their dex bonus. It could be argued that you aren't hitting your target if you hit someone you aren't actually aiming at. (Besides, if you are targeting vital points to do sneak attack damage, you probably missed them if you don't even hit the right target.)

 

[Tatsukun]

I like the idea of a random factor, but don't forget about size. If a medium size PC is grappled by a large size monster, should it still be 50/50 ?

Maybe a system based on the number of squares in play? In the above case, there are five squares in play (four for the monster, one for the PC).

So in order to target the monster, you have to roll under an 80 on a D100 ???

Of course, the math can get annoying quickly...

-T

 

[heliopolix]

Do the rules cover what happens when a rogue throws a dagger into the grapple? Sure, he rolls randomly to see who (if anyone) is hit, but then which of the following applies:

1) No matter who is hit, they take sneak attack damage.
2) No matter who is hit, they do not take sneak attack damage.
3) If the intended target is hit, he takes sneak attack damage but otherwise the target does not take sneak attack damage.

By the RAW, the rogue is going to add SA damage to any attack that lands on someone vulnerable to SA. (theres no "may add +xd6" in the rules, only "adds +xd6"). This means that if you throw (or shoot) into grapple, you SA whomever you hit (even if its a freindly).

I dont mind the whole "melee SA the thing your buddy has grappled" (and the rules support it, as written), but Ive got a big beef about the ranged SA into grapple. It has to do with the fact that 1) SA is precision based damage, and 2) that ranged attacks randomise who they strike in a grapple. Doing precise damage randomly is pretty contradictory.
(although it makes a nifty quote ). I'd house rule that any precision based damage(SA, favored enemy, etc.) doesnt apply to ranged attacks into melee, but thats just my take.

As to a by-the-book answer: Ranged SA into grapple works. Bleh.