Attacking vehicles - awesome or silly?

[Korgoth]

I think that there has to be some common sense. Is the whole planet a vehicle that can be slowed or grabbed? Where does it end?

I like the idea that for something big, you're only attacking one piece of it. Just like, if you attack a rock you're not attacking the whole planet. Likewise, maybe you can slow the ship's rudder (which makes turning more difficult), but even slowing a piece of the keel (if you can target it) or a piece of one of the sails isn't going to do anything.

 

[Nichwee]

I think that there has to be some common sense. Is the whole planet a vehicle that can be slowed or grabbed? Where does it end?

I like the idea that for something big, you're only attacking one piece of it. Just like, if you attack a rock you're not attacking the whole planet. Likewise, maybe you can slow the ship's rudder (which makes turning more difficult), but even slowing a piece of the keel (if you can target it) or a piece of one of the sails isn't going to do anything.

But if you shoot Icy Rays at the hull and, for all intents and purposes, stick a mini-iceburg to the side of the ship I would expect this to damage the hydrodynamics of the craft enough to slow it down (it is dragging extra weight that isn't designed to cut through water very well and may even be listing badly due to the new weight distribution/run aground on the 'iceburg').

Now it is entirely up to the DM how much they let you get away with this (or even if they let you target the vessal at all) but it isn't beyond the bounds of possability at all imo.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The rules for grab state you can only grab something one size category larger (phb 290, HOFL in the grab power description). Unless your fighter has a power that specifically trumps this requirement, then no boat grabbing for him.

Stop bringing rules and logic into an entirely rhetorical thread! You didn't think RangerWickett was asking a rules question, did you?

 

[RangerWickett]

I love taking rules to silly extremes. Like druid freight in Eberron. In 3.5, you used the PHB2 shifter druid, who could wildshape at will and absorbed all the gear he was carrying. The shifter would load up on trade goods, turn into a cat, and ride the lightning rail, saving a ton on shipping expenses.

Or the pony express. You line up ponies side by side, and get a mailman with a Ride check high enough to always quick mount and quick dismount. As a free action he hops off one horse into any square adjacent to it, then as another free action he mounts the next one in line. As long as you have enough ponies, he can travel an infinite distance in one round.

And of course, way back in the day, we had the bucket of snails, great cleave, whirlwind attack combo.

I'm just trying to find equivalent silliness in 4e.

 

[Mirtek]

This is why fighters cannot use his Combat Challenge to mark Athas and then attack it as an immediate interrupt whenever Athas makes an attack against Fortitude that doesn't include the fighter.

That's just great

I think that there has to be some common sense. Is the whole planet a vehicle that can be slowed or grabbed?

Quest hook: Find the responsible for immobilizing the planet before one side is baked and the other side completely frozen

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Well, there are still a few...

There was the lightspeed elves (there is an elf feat that gives the group a bonus to their overland speed... and as it was an untyped bonus, it stacked... so get enough elves and you could get them going at lightspeed) but this no longer works due to the change in the stacking rules for untyped bonuses (the power itself also may have been errattaed).

You can still do the peasant railgun (line peasants up, take a 10 ft pole, minor to grab, next minor to grab (free for first to let go)... etc) . Get enough in a line and you could have the pole travel 1 mile (or however long your line of peasants stretches) in a 6 second round.

There are likely others, but 4e has done a pretty good job on removing such silliness.

 

[Klaus]

This is why fighters cannot use his Combat Challenge to mark Athas and then attack it as an immediate interrupt whenever Athas makes an attack against Fortitude that doesn't include the fighter.

Athas *always* include *everyone* in its attacks.

Very democratic for a post-apocalyptic world, if you ask me.

Back to topic: before saying "that doesn't work", I always try to envision a way where it does work. Ray of Frost could have targetted the sails, making them too stiff to properly funnel the wind, or maybe some rigging snapped and needs to be repaired. The grab, as mentioned, has a size limit. The fighter could grab a rowboat, though, which could mean he's rocking the boat or otherwise messing with its movement.

 

[Infiniti2000]

And of course, way back in the day, we had the bucket of snails, great cleave, whirlwind attack combo.

I'm just trying to find equivalent silliness in 4e.

That's not an unreasonable goal, but 4E explicitly eliminates it. As noted above, there's an actual rule against your first suggestion. The books also clearly point out "no bag of rats" (can anyone quote the actual text?) which should translate into "no silliness." Now, of course, that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy a silly game if that's what floats your boat, but no rules silliness exists. For example, anything that is predicated on a countably infinite number of free actions is explicitly within the DM's purview (I think), as it was in 3.X (for sure). So, no, the pony express didn't exist in 3.X unless that is the kind of game the group desired.

 

[Falkus]

Somewhat related, in a high speed cart chase in my campign, the PCs managed to short circuit half the encounter when the warlock used a slow effect on one of the horses on the enemy's four horse cart. While they were running all out.

Good lord... the carnage

 

[Grabuto138]

Back to topic: before saying "that doesn't work", I always try to envision a way where it does work. Ray of Frost could have targetted the sails, making them too stiff to properly funnel the wind, or maybe some rigging snapped and needs to be repaired. The grab, as mentioned, has a size limit. The fighter could grab a rowboat, though, which could mean he's rocking the boat or otherwise messing with its movement.

I don't think that vehicles can be grabbed. AV pg.15 says "Any conditions from the Player’s Handbook excluded from this section have no effect on vehicles." Immobilized, prone, restrained, slowed. No grab.

I don't think you can grab vehicles. They are "considered objects." The target of grab is "a creature." And of course there is the size limit.

If you wanted to grab the boat and slow it the best mechanism would probably be something like an Athletics check in the context of a skill challange.