[Attn: Writers who wanna write for Eberron] Plot workshopping?

Wulf Ratbane said:
Do you think it's an advantage, or disadvantage, to have lots of "blooded" protagonists/antagonists?
Does it serve your story to have a lot of them? Would the story be less if there were fewer blooded?

I think it might be a disadvantage only if you're omitting some aspects of Eberron in favor of focusing on the dragon-blooded.
 

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Joshua Dyal said:
Say, how big is a 90,000 word novel anyway? 250 pages? 350?

I definitely wouldn't put it much over 200 pages.

How many words to the printed page in a standard softcover novel? I don't know the exact answer, but most of my RPG books so far are 700-800 words per page.

At 750 wpp, that's only 120 pages.

Crank it all the way back to 400 wpp, and you've just hit 225 pages.

Reference that to your favorite Story Hour.

Wulf
 

Most novels tend toward 400 words per page, so it's still definitely under 250 pages.

As far as having blooded characters, it's my belief that WotC isn't going to be picky about what you use from the setting now, as long as you use stuff from the setting. This will be one of the first stories set in the world, so nothing's cliche yet. As Scribe Ineti said, just use what's good for your story, and make it make sense.

They did say to make sure the story is in Eberron, not something generic, so while I do think that a lot of people will latch onto the "you can't do that" parts of the world, they're not off-limit now. Just like how in Daemonforge you weren't supposed to try to open the Gates of Dawn and Dusk, but both me and the other guy had that as our plots, well, in Eberron, I'm sure you're gonna get a lot of submissions with people going to Dal Quor, precisely because the books say you can't do it.

What it comes down to is who has the best idea and execution. Heck, in modern fiction, you could write a story about ninjas assassinating the president, and if you had enough emotional depth and skill with words, it could still be a hit, despite having a cliched-sounding premise.

My formula for a good adventure story:

1. A villain they can't just kill outright, whose reasons for being a villain are tied to other characters. Villains don't become villains in a vacuum.

2. A character who has a nifty trick that'll be fun to write about, and who will be emotionally invested in the plot.

3. A third party that can be enemy or ally depending on the protagonist's choices.

4. A villainous plot that will majorly affect the protagonist, and then at least significantly affect a lot of other people. Otherwise, stopping it isn't as heroic.

5. Two locations that drip cool. These places should be primary set designs in the eventual movie, because their concept is so visually exciting.

6. 1/4 cup butter.

7. Two cool action scenes, one of which should be at or near the climax. These are your lightsaber duels on bridges over bottomless pits, or your one-katana-versus-88-crazy-dudes carnage fest.

8. Have a point you'd like to make, even a mild one. Be willing to let the point change, and turn out to say that the thing you wanted is not important. Have hopes, so that there'll be emotional impact if they are realized, or if they are dashed.


Like any recipe, cooking it requires some skill, and the best dishes have a lot of personal flourishes. Presentation is also highly important.
 

Wulf Ratbane said:
I have a quick question for you, Ryan, and others:

Do you think it's an advantage, or disadvantage, to have lots of "blooded" protagonists/antagonists?

I'm wary of having too many characters with d' or ir'. I don't have a good read on the verisimilitude of having lots of blooded folks running around.

Truth is, I'm not even sure I want my protagonist to be a member of any dragonmarked House at all.

Wulf
Personally, I'm going to stay away from using blooded main characters and focus more on the 'common man/woman/adventurer' and how the war affected them. Neither of my story ideas revolves around a dragonmarked main character and one of them doesn't involve the dragonmarked houses at all.

Take that for what it's worth... which is probably not much. ;)
 

1. A villain they can't just kill outright, whose reasons for being a villain are tied to other characters. Villains don't become villains in a vacuum.
check!

2. A character who has a nifty trick that'll be fun to write about, and who will be emotionally invested in the plot.
check!

3. A third party that can be enemy or ally depending on the protagonist's
choices.
check!

4. A villainous plot that will majorly affect the protagonist, and then at least significantly affect a lot of other people. Otherwise, stopping it isn't as heroic.
Hmmm... Actually my villainous plot affects a lot of people... Haven't really tied it to the protagonist in a direct way.

5. Two locations that drip cool. These places should be primary set designs in the eventual movie, because their concept is so visually exciting.
Still working on that...

6. 1/4 cup butter.
No...

7. Two cool action scenes, one of which should be at or near the climax. These are your lightsaber duels on bridges over bottomless pits, or your one-katana-versus-88-crazy-dudes carnage fest.
Just TWO?

8. Have a point you'd like to make, even a mild one. Be willing to let the point change, and turn out to say that the thing you wanted is not important. Have hopes, so that there'll be emotional impact if they are realized, or if they are dashed.
check!
 

Joshua Dyal said:
Say, how big is a 90,000 word novel anyway? 250 pages? 350?

Err... 90,000 words?

Okay, not being facetious - it depends on the formatting. But the real length of the novel is obviously the word count. If I were submitting to the contest, I'd get one of Wizards' (successful!) novels, and look in detail at how the author fit the story to the format.

Wizards' books are on Amazon with the look inside feature.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0786931663/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9202825-6165754#reader-page

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0786929987/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9202825-6165754#reader-page

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0786930276/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-9202825-6165754#reader-page

It's a standard layout.

With these examples I make it: c. 320 words per full page and c. 100 words per chapter opening page. So the book will likely clock in at between 320 and 350 pages depending on how the chapter breaks work out. We all know what the books look like. Physically big enough to make the reader feel they're getting value for money, and the pages aren't crammed full of words.

That's consistent with the various page counts on the Wizards novel page.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/list&brand=All&year=All&type=Novels
 


Feedback on RangerWickett's synopsis.

Admittedly, this is a very, very, very, cheap and easy point to make - so my apologies. There is no way that your synopsis will fit on one A4 page of 10-point double spaced type. I think it is a real challenge to summarise a 300+ page novel effectively in 500ish words. And to do it in a relatively interesting manner. What they want is:

A one-page, single-spaced story synopsis that tells us the entire story: beginning, middle, and end. Don't write cover or ad copy -- tell us the story and be specific about locations, character types, monsters, and so on.

It's going to be incredibly hard to do this well - we're talking about (roughly) a sentence for every 2,000 words! What's needed is short, pithy, one sentence descriptions of the main characters. Short descriptions of locations, encounters and opponents. And it all needs to be tied together with a plot complex enough to make a novel of, but that can be clearly spelt out on one page. I'd write a paragraph of set-up, a paragraph for the resolution, and you've then got half a page to connect them together!

Would anyone care to discuss writing sample strategies?

10 pages is basically a chapter. It's obviously a chance to enlarge upon a selected area of your synopsis. Is anyone considering using the 1st person? And Wizards' novels are usually a dozen or so short chapters, sub-divided into sub-sections marked out with "*'s". How do you decide what to include? And is anyone considering doing a prologue?
 

Eberron - Passage​
Brief Description:

House Orien, in the last days of the war, used its teleportation powers to steal huge caches of magical treasures, hiding them in a secret location even its own agents knew only by description, not geography.

Now, in the aftermath of the war, Hawkins d’Orien, an outcast who bears the Mark of Passage, meets a wandering warforged with a clue to that treasure's location. Pursued by bounty hunters and agents of an evil cult, Hawkins must oppose family and old friends to find out the truth of House Orien’s last mission of the Last War.

Full Synopsis:
Our three main characters are Hawkins d’Orien, a human sorcerer who abuses his teleportation powers to live as a thief; Labeth Porter, a kalashtar warrior seeking a fortune so she can resurrect her husband who died in the war; and Alloy, a warforged paladin who tried and failed to find a simple life among the Talenta halflings.

After a short vignet introduces each, Labeth meets Hawkins in a Brelish village when she tries to collect the bounty on him, but he evades her. She pursues him to Sharn, to a gala held by several dragonmarked families. Hawkins is looking for leads on things to steal when he sees an argument between a strange warforged and Hawkins’ father Ghen (whom he has hated ever since Ghen let Hawkins’ wife and son die). The warforged is trying to gain access to records of the dragonmarked houses so he can identify a body he found in the Mournland. Ghen will not allow it, but Hawkins becomes friends with the warforged, and agrees to help.

The warforged paladin, Alloy, will not agree to steal the records, so instead they set out to collect a bounty on a group of brigands in the King’s Forest – the Jungle Boys – intending to buy access to the records. During the hunt, Labeth first tries to attack them, then helps them defeat some of the brigands. They discover they have a common interest: Labeth overheard Ghen d’Orien mention “retrieving the cache during the transit,” and Hawkins realizes the person Alloy saw had a Siberys Mark of Passage. Hawkins admits that he was involved in stealing and hiding a great amount of magical treasure and dragonshards toward the end of the war. He wants to disrupt his father’s plans, Alloy wants to solve the mystery, and Labeth wants to get the treasure, so they join forces.

Seeking clues, they sneak into the headquarters of House Orien in the city of Passage, and follow a trail that leads them to a few possible sites of the ‘cache.’ They find no treasure, but do cross paths with agents of Ghen – a fighter from House Orien, a House Lyrandar mage, and an Inspired monk – but Hawkins and company teleport away before the fight escalates.

Alloy has spurts of dreams that suggest mysterious planar energies are at work. Directed by Labeth’s contacts, the group visits a planar observatory in the Eldeen Reaches, just miles from the ground where Labeth’s husband died. At the observatory they learn that a rare planar transit will occur soon; Shavarath, the Battleground, will metaphysically pass in front of Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead, eclipsing that plane and briefly cutting it off from Eberron. They are attacked at the observatory by Ghen’s agents, and though they escape again, the psychic energy of the Inspired monk affects Alloy, and he sees a vivid vision. Ghen, he learns, is allied with the Dreaming Dark, attempting the pinacle of dimensional travel – accessing Dal Quor, the Region of Dreams – by means of an eldritch machine hidden in the Glowing Chasm in the Mournland. The planar eclipse will allow a resurrection spell to call a spirit from Dal Quor, rather than Dolurrh, and the eldritch machine will give it a body.

Unwilling to teleport somewhere they've never seen before, the group hijacks a lightning rail train and ride into the Mournland. They discover that the spirits of the dead are appearing on the train, apparently drawn to the planar conjunction. But before Hawkins can reach his father's secret base, the train is attacked by a Lyrandar airship, and the group is taken prisoner. The ritual to open the portal to Dal Quor requires a body that bears the Mark of Passage, to focus the planar powers, and the body they have chosen is that of Kev, Hawkin’s dead son.

Hawkins can only watch as they perform the ritual, but as the planar dream energies slip into the world, Alloy is able to bend enough of it to his will that he frees them, and they disrupt the last moments of the ritual, unleashing energy that twists people's dreams, killing them. Aside from agents of the Dreaming Dark, the only survivors are Hawkins and Labeth, who have lost too much to still have any hopes or dreams. The Quori that was intended to appear instead resurrects into Kev’s body, and with the newly awakened power of a Syberis mark, it flees to Ghen’s manor in Sharn, needing to rest until the planar transit ends.

Hawkins curses his dying father in the ruins of the eldritch machine, and nearly gives up. But from the many spirits drawn by the planar transit, Labeth’s husband appears, giving her the strength to keep going. She convinces Hawkins to help her. They scry and teleport to Sharn, sidetracking briefly to get an ally with the Mark of Healing, Parison d’Jorasco. Together, they face Ghen’s agents and the dream monsters of the Quori, finally managing to drive the spirit out of Hawkin’s son just before the transit ends. The plans of Ghen d'Orien and the Dreaming Dark are defeated, Hawkins is reunited with his son, and Labeth, finally able to mourn for her lost husband, is healed spiritually.




I could use some help, I'm sure. Is it action-y enough? Should the villain play a bigger active role earlier on, or is it okay for his henchmen to be the main antagonists until the ending?
 

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