Attribute scores don't make sense

[Gloombunny]

You've never had a character with bad stats? A character with nothing but good stats is a literal paragon, a shining hero, and about as interesting as a cardboard cutout. With bad stats, it gives you a chance to explain why a character is good at some things but terrible at others. It goes into the back story and gives the character depth.

I know that's not really everyone's cuppa, but it works.

That notion has no relation to reality. A person's strengths and weaknesses, whether she's real or fictional, are far more complex and multidimensional than the six attributes can measure. Are you unable to imagine a character whose flaws don't take the form of weak muscles, frailty, clumsiness, simplemindedness, obliviousness to her surroundings, or shyness? Are those the only possible sources of depth to a character? Of course they aren't. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Dormain1]

Using a character which is well known

Raistlin

Character was written up as having low con score

the player wondered why this was the case

the player created the backstory about Raistlin being a sickly child which further got rolled into his backstory of his test of high sorcery which later was put into novels

from little things big things grow

anything which aids a players ability to perceive their character and better explain the in's and out's of who what where etc is a good thing, if you don't use the ability scores that way it fine but do not tell others that notion has no bases in their reality

everyone needs a starting point to flesh out their multidirectional persona and this just happened to be easy start point

just thank the makers they didn't go the 2ed cheats and routes skills and powers were every stat had a secondary stat

 

[Surgoshan]

That notion has no relation to reality. A person's strengths and weaknesses, whether she's real or fictional, are far more complex and multidimensional than the six attributes can measure. Are you unable to imagine a character whose flaws don't take the form of weak muscles, frailty, clumsiness, simplemindedness, obliviousness to her surroundings, or shyness? Are those the only possible sources of depth to a character? Of course they aren't. Don't be ridiculous.

I would roll my eyes at you, but that's bad manners. Instead I'll sigh at you and shake my head.

I never suggested that the six stats cover the full spectrum of human ability. Hell, the greater number of stats in Fallout and their d10 basis likewise don't cover the gamut of human existence. You'd have to be incredibly creative and have a very oddly shaped die to encapsulate a human being.

However, the six stats provide a model that reasonably encompasses human ability and endeavor. Given that, the fact that someone is bad at some things and good at others provides not just pluses and minuses to dice rolls, but also a reason why your character chose his class instead of another. It's not the be-all and summation of your PC's existence, but it does provide a launching platform. And having some, or even many bad stats gives you crunchier platform than having nothing but good stats.

Stats have a mechanical impact on the game that cannot be ignored. It's not like deciding your character has a phobia, or is a fop. It's central to the game and, therefor, is central to your character in a way your other decisions won't be.

 

[Lanefan]

Poll needs a new option:

"Current attribute system should be enhanced such that odd scores mean something too"

That's what I'd vote for.

Lanefan

 

[FadedC]

Poll needs a new option:

"Current attribute system should be enhanced such that odd scores mean something too"

That's what I'd vote for.

Lanefan

One of the most important uses of stats in 4e is to qualify for feats. All feat stat requirements are odd.

It's not unusual to see a 4e character with an odd score in one or more stats just for the purpose of gaining feats.

 

[The Human Target]

I vote that its an awkward hold over from days past.

True 20 didn't explode when they just changed to the ability scores being the bonus numbers.

 

[The Hitcher]

I'm all for some rationalising of the game's rules, but some cows are just too sacred, and not everything has to be a slave to exactness. I used to sit in science class at school and roll stats for 2E characters. Would it really be D&D any more without those six sacred attribute scores?

For the record, all my players will be using randomly generated stat arrays when I run my game later this year. I don't care if it throws the maths out. It's just better that way.

 

[Asmor]

One of the most important uses of stats in 4e is to qualify for feats. All feat stat requirements are odd.

It's not unusual to see a 4e character with an odd score in one or more stats just for the purpose of gaining feats.

Just like 3rd edition.

I agree that the abilities are a sacred cow, but in my opinion they're one of the more sacred cows. I'd probably get over it if they changed them, but I wouldn't like it.

 

[TimeOut]

I like the attribute system. It may be a remnant of the past, but it is something iconic and inherently D&D. I don't like the inflation of the stats, a stupid practice that started with 3e. When you heard of great characters with a 17 or 18 in one stat in the times before 3e, you could imagine a rare and true hero (and someone who got really lucky with his dice).

Nowadays a character is "unoptimized" if he has not two 18s at character creation. I tried to downgrade the scores to older levels, but the math kinda assumes that you take overly good attributes.

But at last 4e tries to rectify this by saying that all PC are special heroes.

A person's strengths and weaknesses, whether she's real or fictional, are far more complex and multidimensional than the six attributes can measure.

Yes, but they give a guideline for people to base their initial imaginations on. More important: This is not a simulation, its a game. So perhaps you should treat the attribute scores the same as hit points. A general number that is the sum of many parts, all condensed for abstract gameplay reasons.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

The thing about sacred cows that some people aren't grasping is that you don't kill them JUST BECAUSE they're sacred.

Sometimes cows are sacred for a good reason.

D&D would not be D&D without attributes. Period. That really is one of the big thresholds.