[AU] Arcana Unearthed Questions

[Ezrael]

One of the ideas I saw and immediately thought was cool over on the Monte Cook board was the idea of using the AU classes, races, et al as an invading force in a typical D&D campaign, and having the AU classes and races and magic system stay on the divide as it were, in the hands of the invaders. So you could play out Wizard vs. Magister combats, or have Akashics ply their skills to inflitrate Elven strongholds, etc. That way, you stay with what's familiar to you while at the same time learning the new system. It does sound like it could be a lot of work, but at the same time it could stress test the system and be an interesting prelude to a whole new campaign. (Kind of like using AU as an event book.)

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

Came here from Neg Zero's pointer in General ( Thanks ! )

The biggest problem I have seen so far ( in terms of "compatibility with 3.5 ) would be using AU spells in a standard 3.5 magic system setting.

What would you all reccomend? One idea: Creating Feats that would allow the casting of Complex spells, or perhaps just bumbping the spell level up?

 

[Felon]

Re: Re: [AU] Arcana Unearthed Questions

Well, like people have said, it's fairly easy to add some of these things. Races aren't hard, especially if it's a new campaign. As for classes:

I've only delved about halfway into AU, but I have to say that dmunch sounds right on the money.

Magisters definitely trump the PHB arcane casters, and the warmain--with d12 hit dice, a superior Will save, and some class abilities that outshine core PHB feats--really eclipses the fighter in terms of raw power (although the latter has more flexibility). I'd say if you're using AU classes, then use them all, and allow fighters, rogues, monks, and barbarians to co-exist with them (essentially, drop the PHB spellcasters). Trust me, they're all great classes and you won't regret hedging out a D&D druid for an AU greenbond for a second.

As for the rest of the book's compatability with "standard" D&D, I'd say the rest of AU is take-it-or-leave-it, because although it's different from core D&D, it doesn't offer any advantages over it in the way that the classes do.

The classes are definitely the shining point of the book for me. The races are a bit blah--fairies and furries for the most part--and I like D&D's core races as they are. One specific niggling point is that I don't like the thought of having all these furry races co-existing with a totem warriro class (sorry, Monte, the thought of that leonine totem warrior having the totem of a snake or wolverine or shark doesn't mesh conceptually IMO). I was pleased to see that low-light vision is far more prominent among player races than darkvision.

The magic system is extensive and it's the part I'm just starting to get into. It doesn't look like any new ground was broken in terms of how magic works. Same vancian system, and unfortunately the same rule that casters can't prepare new spells until they've had eight hours of sound sleep. Maybe it's just me, but that always struck me as totally unheroic. Heroes should be able to ride hard and fight hard, not one or the other. I am sick of characters taking half-day long siestas in the middle of a hellish dungeon, or over-extending their spell resources during a particularly brutal encounter and having no hope to meet the save-the-world deadline without massive DM fudging. Long, unavoidable breaks from the action erodes that cinematic "edge-of-your-seat" suspence I strive to create, but that's how the 8-hour recharge system often works.

I have to say that my greatest disappointment with AU so far was that it didn't live up to Monte's assertion about death:

People should die. Harsh but true. If the magic of the game makes it so that people never die (because they are so easy to heal, cure, or raise), not only does the setting get really weird, but the feeling of accomplishment for success diminish right along with the consequences for failure. Arcana Unearthed has the means to raise the dead, but they are not as common or simple as in other games.

This statement gave me high hopes, so my hear sank when I came across a section that states that a character suffers some nasty disadvantages after the sixth time he's been raised. As far as I can tell, the only meaningful difference between getting raised in AU and getting raised in D&D is that the AU-equivalent spell is a couple of levels higher. People can still be raised after weeks or months or even longer. There is no cradling a fallen comrade in your arms with tear-filled eyes. You do not send Boromir's body down the river on a makeshift pyre, unless you're a cheapskate. A hero's sacrifice still only amounts to XP and cash. If you can't raise him yourself, you pack'im up and take'im back to town and cough up the dough for a spell. There's a "Spells for Hire" section just as in D&D, going all the way up to 9th-level spells, which quashes the impression that high-level magic is so rare that there's no such thing as fixed pricing.

As for the simple/complex/exotic spell system, it just seems to me that it boils down to a system where casters, for the most part, share a single ubiquitious spell list rather than a variety of lists tailored to each class.

Max, there is not specific reference to the diamond throne campaign, so that won't prevent you from plugging it into a more generic D&D campaign. You're concerned with too much magic, and that might pose a bit of a problem. While it was noted that there are fewer casters in AU than in the PHB, all classses except warmains and unfettereds rely on supernatural abilities of some kind. Overall, though, they're about as magical as D&D classes (which are pretty darn magical, I should point out).

Although I have uttered quite a bit of criticism of AU (I had lofty expectations, I suppose), I do still think this is a remarkable piece of work. Snatch it off the shelf as soon as you get a chance.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

So far we have yet to deal with an outright death, but I have had more close calls than even with City of the Spider Queen, and, with a single mild exception, the encounters haven't been that terrible.

Death certainly feels a lot more final than it does in DnD to me, but then we are at the pretty deadly low levels.

I'm not certain that Magisters trump Wizards. Personally, I would be willing to give a world with both a try.

Where wizards represent the extremely bright-minded types with access to a lot more of the most powerful spells. Your PC types.

And Magisters have the better system, ala Mac users.

Sorcerors I would probaly scoop out and not look back. There might be a place for them in a world of both AU and DnD classes, but the witches are a little bit close to them in terms of flavor, and the Magisters have a lot of their utility. And both the Magister and the Witch are way cooler.

The Greenbond seems a lot like the Druid, but I find that perception becomes harder to support the longer you spend with the Greenbond. To me the Greenbond seems a lot more like your priest of the field or Franciscan where the Druid is way more of crazy hermit. Greenbonds feel a lot more like Nature Mages than embodiments of nature.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Re: Re: Re: [AU] Arcana Unearthed Questions

Originally posted by Felon One specific niggling point is that I don't like the thought of having all these furry races co-existing with a totem warriro class (sorry, Monte, the thought of that leonine totem warrior having the totem of a snake or wolverine or shark doesn't mesh conceptually IMO).

A lot of people seem to have this complaint. Why does the notion of a bipedal cat having a totem animal bother you while hairless apes can have all the totems they want?

The litorians are probably sitting around having trouble figuring out how the concept of monkey-men goes with a snake or wolf totem.

 

[ShadowX]

A few points I would like to address. One from what I remember there is no sleeping required to ready spells, only an hour. Also the readied spell mechanic combines the versatility of the sorcerer and the wizard very well. This change really spruces up the familiar magic system of D&D. As for the prices for NPC's to cast a spell, I take these more as guidlelines on how much value the spells carry. Lastly the interaction between totem warriors and races is one that is easily fixed. Make new ones and enforce that only certain totems are available to certain races.

 

[drnuncheon]

A few points I would like to address. One from what I remember there is no sleeping required to ready spells, only an hour.

There's an hour to changeyour 'spells known' and a full night's sleep to restore your spell slots - I think that the latter is what he's referring to. I disagree that it makes the "fight hard" idea suffer - people still sleep in heroic fantasy, after all. What you need to do is somehow make the players suffer for camping after every combat. "Sorry, you can't sleep, you're just not tired enough, and the sun is too bright." Although it is a self-correcting problem, as you can't regain spells more than once in 24 hours.

I'd also note to Felon that it's definitely not the "same old Vancian system" - you don't forget a spell when it's been used, you can keep using it until you run out of slots.

J

 

[Negative Zero]

Came here from Neg Zero's pointer in General ( Thanks ! )

The biggest problem I have seen so far ( in terms of "compatibility with 3.5 ) would be using AU spells in a standard 3.5 magic system setting.

What would you all reccomend? One idea: Creating Feats that would allow the casting of Complex spells, or perhaps just bumbping the spell level up?

np BFG, you're welcome

bumping up the levels of complex spells might not work, as they might become underpowered for the lvl. i read somewhere on Monte's boards that the difference between the types of spells (simple, complex and exotic) has a lot to do with how widely known the spell is, and not necessarily how powerful it is. also, it is quite possible for complex spells to become simple (and so on) over time.

~NegZ

 

[Felon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: [AU] Arcana Unearthed Questions

A lot of people seem to have this complaint. Why does the notion of a bipedal cat having a totem animal bother you while hairless apes can have all the totems they want?

I'm pretty sure we all know that when the word "animal" is used in conversation in a categorical sense, it is usually not intended to include human beings (e.g. "animal experimentation, animal instincts, animal magnetism". We don't think of ourselves as just another animal, and we definitely don't conceptualize themselves as anthropomorphized apes. None of this is news to anyone, right?

And I have to say, bipedal form aside (which is shared by all humanoind creatures), we in fact do not have a countenance that greatly resembles a hairless ape; we don't resemble apes any more than we resemble, say, an orc or goblin. I don't see why litorians would make such a connection.

Litorians, otoh, do very much appear to be a lion with the bipedal form of a humanoid, i.e. a lion-man. I suspect that a litorian would be willing to admit that. Perhaps if they'd been designed with an appearance that wasn't so clearly leonine it wouldn't create conceptual problems for people. I can say that I personally don't have the same problem conceptualizing an orc or goblin totem warrior.

 

[Felon]

There's an hour to changeyour 'spells known' and a full night's sleep to restore your spell slots - I think that the latter is what he's referring to.

Right.

I disagree that it makes the "fight hard" idea suffer - people still sleep in heroic fantasy, after all. What you need to do is somehow make the players suffer for camping after every combat. "Sorry, you can't sleep, you're just not tired enough, and the sun is too bright." Although it is a self-correcting problem, as you can't regain spells more than once in 24 hours.

Exactly. It's sufficient to say that a person's reserve of magical energy doesn't replenish any more quickly than that. The eight hours of sleep is superfluous. What does the eight hours add to the equation? That's easy enough to rule zero in my campaign, of course, but I then have to pitch that logical conclusion to other DM's to get them to realize its unheroic lameness.

I'd also note to Felon that it's definitely not the "same old Vancian system" - you don't forget a spell when it's been used, you can keep using it until you run out of slots.

Well, as Monte's pointed out himself on his website, casters don't forget spells any more either. They just run out of prepared spells. It all amounts to the same thing though; run out of slots and you're done until you've eight solid hours of beddie-bye (which, again, seems like a higher minimum requirement of sleep than a seasoned adventurer should need to get to by on).