Augment healing and undead

[Hypersmurf]

You inflict 1d8 + caster level damage. However, the spell description explicitly states that undead are damaged instead of being healed, so I'd also say that the benefit from Augment Healing doesn't apply. My interperetation is that the feat is applied after the spell is cast, once you know whether you're healing damage or inflicting it.

I'd say the feat is applied when the spell is cast, and the amount that the Conjuration [Healing] spell heals is increased... but the undead creature is damaged instead of being healed.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

What dice do we roll to determine how much damage is inflicted? How is it calculated?

Spelled out in the spell description -- and I guess that's what's leading you down this false path. The feat isn't a [Metamagic] feat. It doesn't modify the spell itself. If it did, you might have a point.

For the feat to work, two things must apply:
1: You must cast a Conjuration (Healing) spell; and
2: You must heal damage with the above spell.

Under your interpretation, how much does Augmented Healing modify remove disease?
My answer: not at all. First condition applies, second does not.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DamnedChoir]

Making it not do extra damage to undead like many people suggest seems like it's just gimping augment healing. It's not like letting it do a few extra points of damage to undead is going to break the game.

Anyways, isn't destroying the undead, technically healing the world?

(The main thing I'd say is that augment healing increases the power of your healing spells, and that the power of healing spells automatically damages the undead, whether you mean for it or not, it's anathema to them, so...)

 

[Hypersmurf]

Spelled out in the spell description

No it isn't; the amount healed is spelled out in the spell description. For dealing damage to undead, it simply says it damages them instead of healing. Unless we determine how much the spell heals, we don't know how much damage is dealt to undead.

For the feat to work, two things must apply:
1: You must cast a Conjuration (Healing) spell; and
2: You must heal damage with the above spell.

I'd say, rather, you must cast a Conjuration (Healing) spell, and it must be a spell that heals damage.

Remove Disease is not a spell that heals damage.

Cure Light Wounds is a spell that heals damage, and that amount is increased by the feat; if you cast it on an undead creature, the damage is dealt instead of cured.

-Hyp.

 

[Teydyn]

I think it should work.

Rule debates besides, the feat is nice, but not "overpowered". Casting Cure spells on undeads is kind of a waste anyway, so letting it boost the damage to undead part -> Have fun Cleric...

 

[Nifft]

I'd say, rather, you must cast a Conjuration (Healing) spell, and it must be a spell that heals damage.

When you cast cure light wounds on an undead, how much damage does that spell heal?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

When you cast cure light wounds on an undead, how much damage does that spell heal?

That spell heals 1d8 + caster level, and to the undead, it instead deals damage.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

That spell heals 1d8 + caster level, and to the undead, it instead deals damage.

So when you cast cure light wounds on an undead, is it a spell that heals damage, or a spell that deals damage?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

So when you cast cure light wounds on an undead, is it a spell that heals damage, or a spell that deals damage?

Cure Light Wounds is both.

Hey, with Mass Cure Light Wounds (or, say, Fireball), do you roll 1d8+X (or Xd6) separately for each target (or creature in the area), or do you roll it once and apply the result to all creatures?

If you roll once, would you treat Mass Cure Light Wounds targeting both allies and undead differently to how you treat Cure Light Wounds for purposes of Augment Healing? Even this instance of the spell is healing damage, as well as damaging undead.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

Cure Light Wounds is both.

I'd rather say it's either, being only one or the other at the time of a single casting. There are many other spells which can have multiple different effects -- for example, summon monster IX is a [Fire] spell when I summon a fire elemental, but is not a [Fire] spell when I summon a water elemental. Summon monster IX is never both a [Fire] spell and a [Water] spell; cure light wounds never both heals and deals damage.

Your next tactic is better, though.

Hey, with Mass Cure Light Wounds (or, say, Fireball), do you roll 1d8+X (or Xd6) separately for each target (or creature in the area), or do you roll it once and apply the result to all creatures?

If you roll once, would you treat Mass Cure Light Wounds targeting both allies and undead differently to how you treat Cure Light Wounds for purposes of Augment Healing? Even this instance of the spell is healing damage, as well as damaging undead.

I roll separately for the two separate effects. These two lines:

Saving Throw: Will half (harmless) or Will half; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) or Yes; see text

... are why I deem there to be two separate effects. Otherwise, I'd feel it necessary to apply saves and SR to PCs, and that seems more wrong to me than rolling twice.

Similarly, if there were an undead with a dampen power-like ability to reduce the damage dealt to its minimum possible roll, that would IMHO not affect the damage cured.

Cheers, -- N