Augment Summoning, and Wands

[jcfiala]

The feat Augment summoning is pretty simple. It says:

Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it.

It's a general feat - not metamagic like it was in 3.0.

My question is simple too: Does it apply when summoning a creature with a wand of Summon Monster I? I'd certainly like it to, but I can't figure it either way for sure. The closest thing I come to is a bit from the SRD on the Conjuration school of magic:

Creatures you conjure usually, but not always, obey your commands.

Now, that sounds like it should apply to wand or scroll-based magic - just because I summoned with a wand, you'ld expect the creature to obey me.

The spell conjures one of the creatures from the 1st-level list on the accompanying Summon Monster table. You choose which kind of creature to summon, and you can change that choice each time you cast the spell.

So, on the balance, it seems that the feat should apply to wand-based summoning... but I don't seem to have a solid way of saying 'This is definately so'.

 

[durza120]

Yeah, im pretty sure the feat applys with all types of summoning. It should apply with all spells that have the word "summon" in it.

 

[Staffan]

I'm thinking no. You pretty much never get the benefit of your spell-affecting feats with wands. Just like you don't get to use your Spell Focus, or Spell Penetration, you don't get to use Augment Summoning.

If it was a staff, it would be a different story.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Strictly speaking, the feat works with wands. Realistically speaking, I don't see a reason not to allow it anyway. A wand of Summon Monster I is truly a pathetic wand. You can bring in one weal monster for one round. So what if it has +4 STR/CON for that one round? And, due to the Protection spells, most summoning spells are crappy anyway.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I don't think, strictly speaking, the feat works with wands. Wands do not benefit from the users feats, only from those feats the creator added into them when crafting the wand. Staves are the magic items that allow the use of feats. Spell Focus and Spell Penetration are also [General] feats. They still do not apply to spells cast from wands.

As a DM, though, I could probably be pursuaded to allow it, despite the above. As mentioned, it's not really game-breaking to allow the boost.

 

[jcfiala]

I don't think, strictly speaking, the feat works with wands. Wands do not benefit from the users feats, only from those feats the creator added into them when crafting the wand. Staves are the magic items that allow the use of feats. Spell Focus and Spell Penetration are also [General] feats. They still do not apply to spells cast from wands.

Can anyone give me a pointer to where in the RAW this principle is stated? I'd love to have a look at it.

Thanks!

 

[frankthedm]

Actually it would need to be quoted that the wielder of the item is the caster.
ONLY potions and scrolls refer to the user as caster.

Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers
Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell.

Staffs are an exception to the rule. Treat the saving throw as if the wielder cast the spell, including caster level and all modifiers to save DC.

Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly).

Spell Completion
This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

Spell Trigger
Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).

 

[Infiniti2000]

Actually it would need to be quoted that the wielder of the item is the caster.

What does caster have to do with anything? Nothing in Augment Summoning mentions caster.

Wands do not benefit from the users feats, only from those feats the creator added into them when crafting the wand.

Where is this rule from? Are you saying you disallow Quick Draw or Point Blank Shot with wands?

 

[jcfiala]

Actually it would need to be quoted that the wielder of the item is the caster.
[/I]

Okay, so... I see that a wand's DC is based on how it was constructed - which I knew. But where does it state that wands scrolls and potions are not affected by your feats? Keep in mind - Augment summoning is not Metamagic - it's a General feat.

And if my character is not the caster of a spell from a wand - then how do I control the creature that's summoned?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I don't know of a quote offhand that directly says "Augment Summoning applies to wands" or "Augment summoning does not apply to wands." I know how I interpret the rules, and the basis for my interpretation. Let me clarify that.

First of all, for reference once again, the feat itself:

Augment Summoning [General]
Prerequisite
Spell Focus (conjuration).

Benefit
Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it.

So the question becomes, what does "each creature you conjure" mean? Does it refer to any magical effect that summons a creature under your control, or does it refer to something more specific?

I see it as refering specifically to the Cast a Spell action. When you perform the Cast a Spell action in combat, your relevant feats--such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, and Augment Summoning--come into play.

Wands, on the other hand, are not used with the Cast a Spell action. Instead, they function as an Activate Magic Item action. Now, if we look into the rules governing the Activate Magic Item action, there is a distinction between spell completion items, and spell trigger, command word, and use-activated magic items. The part I'd like to draw your attention to is the following:

Activating a spell completion item is the equivalent of casting a spell.

Note that this text does not appear when discussing any of the other kinds of magic items. It seems to me, therefore, that activating a non-Spell Completion magic item is not the equivalent of casting a spell.

And what kind of magic item is a wand? Spell-Trigger. i.e. not the equivalent of casting a spell.

So if you take "each creature you conjure" to refer to you casting the spell, then an argument could be made for it applying to spells activated from scrolls. But it seems fairly clear to me that such an argument cannot be made regarding wands, which are not the equivalent of casting a spell.

Now, if I were to interpret "each creature you conjure" to refer to any creature brought under one's control through a conjuration effect, then a fighter with a ring of spell storing might conceivably pick up Augment Summoning and use it on spells cast from the ring. This is untenable to me. Surely, the feat should be effective because of some effect the feat-bearer has on the casting of the spell. i.e. because he is casting it himself.

So in essence, I take "each creature you conjure" to mean you need to be casting the spell yourself, specifically taking the Cast a Spell action. Wands fall under the Use Magic Item action, the rules of which specifically do not grant it any equivalency to actually casting the spell, which would be the only mitigating factor that might allow the feat to apply.