This realy bugs me off. Beholder Eye of the Flame. He got aura 5 and can make free attacks. Now. Does they provoke fighter/paladin marks abilities? And are those attacks suffer -2 penalty? I said now couse its aura. But what with normal attacks? Standard action and use of 2 rays. Are they sepparate attacks? What with marks? What with other powers that have "make 2,3 etc attakcs...? Like drow blademaster. Make attack with longsword and short sword...
Aura questions
- Thread starter Bayuer
- Start date
Danceofmasks
First Post
That is incorrect.
Eye rays are attack rolls, and will therefore suffer all the consequences of a mark.
Mort_Q has it backwards ... a marked NPC has to include the marker with every attack. After all, a divine challenge will deal damage the first time an attack is made that doesn't include the paladin.
Eye rays are attack rolls, and will therefore suffer all the consequences of a mark.
Mort_Q has it backwards ... a marked NPC has to include the marker with every attack. After all, a divine challenge will deal damage the first time an attack is made that doesn't include the paladin.
The Aura allows the beholder to make an attack, and this attack would indeed suffer the relevant penalties.
The second part of the question is debatable. My interpretation is that the only attacks that can include multiple targets are attacks such as bursts and blasts, and attacks that target X creatures (where X > 1). So a ranger using Dire Wolverine Strike or Split The Tree that includes a target which marked him, would not suffer penalties, but if he uses Twin Strike, any attack that doesn't include the marking enemy would suffer the penalty.
If an attack has a primary target and secondary target such as with Force Orb, the primary target must be the marking enemy. Otherwise the attack will suffer the penalty.
In the case of a power like Lightning Bolt, if you were marked by enemy A, but attacked enemy B as the primary target with the Lightning Bolt, you would suffer the penalty on the initial attack. But if one of your two secondary targets was enemy A, then your secondary attacks would not suffer the penalty.
Here is the generalization: Any (primary or secondary) attack that forces you to choose targets before the attack rolls, will not suffer penalties if you include the marking enemy. Any multiple attack power that allows you to make target decissions during the attacks, will cause you to suffer the penalties for any attack that does not target the marking enemy.
Clear as mud?
The second part of the question is debatable. My interpretation is that the only attacks that can include multiple targets are attacks such as bursts and blasts, and attacks that target X creatures (where X > 1). So a ranger using Dire Wolverine Strike or Split The Tree that includes a target which marked him, would not suffer penalties, but if he uses Twin Strike, any attack that doesn't include the marking enemy would suffer the penalty.
If an attack has a primary target and secondary target such as with Force Orb, the primary target must be the marking enemy. Otherwise the attack will suffer the penalty.
In the case of a power like Lightning Bolt, if you were marked by enemy A, but attacked enemy B as the primary target with the Lightning Bolt, you would suffer the penalty on the initial attack. But if one of your two secondary targets was enemy A, then your secondary attacks would not suffer the penalty.
Here is the generalization: Any (primary or secondary) attack that forces you to choose targets before the attack rolls, will not suffer penalties if you include the marking enemy. Any multiple attack power that allows you to make target decissions during the attacks, will cause you to suffer the penalties for any attack that does not target the marking enemy.
Clear as mud?
Danceofmasks
First Post
Mengu has it correct .. an area attack includes the marker, and thus none of the attack rolls suffer a penalty.
And ... the definition of attack rears its ugly head .. again.
And ... the definition of attack rears its ugly head .. again.
Answer:
Yes, every attack made must include a marker (which is why marks do not stack, they replace old marks).
Solution:
Since this tactic will really put a damper on the Beholder's fun, throw in a few simple lower level mobs (maybe 3 levels lower) that will soak up some damage from any players for a couple rounds. Position them directly underneath where the Eye is floating. This will make them the closest mobs for any proximity based marking, the beholder is floating which prevents attacking based marks (IE fighters)... there may be a few ways for players to get around it, but it should make them think a lil to get the job done.
Yes, every attack made must include a marker (which is why marks do not stack, they replace old marks).
Solution:
Since this tactic will really put a damper on the Beholder's fun, throw in a few simple lower level mobs (maybe 3 levels lower) that will soak up some damage from any players for a couple rounds. Position them directly underneath where the Eye is floating. This will make them the closest mobs for any proximity based marking, the beholder is floating which prevents attacking based marks (IE fighters)... there may be a few ways for players to get around it, but it should make them think a lil to get the job done.
deleteme123456
Explorer
I work with the far simpler definition of attack: all attack rolls generated by the same action (standard, move, minor, immediate, or otherwise defined by the game rules) are part of the same attack for purposes of marking / penalties. This is a difference from Mengu's, in that my definition allows the Twin Strike ranger to hit the enemy that marked him with either but not both shots, and allows solos / elites that have at-will: Make two basic melee attacks to hit their marker with one but not the other.
Forcing the solo to hit the fighter with both attacks every round is A) boring B) deadly for the fighter in a hurry and C) really abusive for any squishies who want to stand next to the solo without any real fear of getting attacked short of burst/blasts, because the penalty for not attacking a fighter while marked is just brutal.
Forcing the solo to hit the fighter with both attacks every round is A) boring B) deadly for the fighter in a hurry and C) really abusive for any squishies who want to stand next to the solo without any real fear of getting attacked short of burst/blasts, because the penalty for not attacking a fighter while marked is just brutal.
James McMurray
First Post
Also, there are some monsters whose dual attack power only lets them hit two different targets (like the yuan-ti anathema).
I do it basically the opposite way. If a monster can make two or more attacks as a standard action, they all count as separate attacks. Saying that a power that allows you to do something like "make a gore attack and two claw attacks" does not actually count as three attacks is twisting the definitions a little too much for me. Solos and elites have higher defenses and HP and can cope with the fighter if they want to attack someone else.
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