D&D (2024) Auto-succeed/fail on ability checks

[Reynard]

I think this is where the disconnect like. You think that the DC is 23 irrespective of whomever is attempting the climb and the next time they try it is also DC 23.
Is the wall as more like a puzzle. If Bob needs a DC 23 climb to climb the wall and makes it, he does not need to roll the next time he tries that wall. He knows the way up, no need to roll unless something has occurred to make it more difficult.

I didn't say anything about "next time." I am totally on board with "you mastered it; it is no longer an obstacle for you" until the circumstances change. How did you get the impression otherwise?

 

[Bill Zebub]

I didn't say anything about "next time." I am totally on board with "you mastered it; it is no longer an obstacle for you" until the circumstances change. How did you get the impression otherwise?

I think they were just making the observation that DCs are not entirely independent of who attempts it, and was offering an example of why/when that would be true.

 

[Reynard]

I think they were just making the observation that DCs are not entirely independent of who attempts it, and was offering an example of why/when that would be true.

That has nothing to do with the DC though. The DC was to find the safe way up. I mean , if it wasn't, if it was just the effort and precariousness of climbing, I guess they might have to make the check again (although I would probably grant advantage for them doing so since they at least discovered a safe route).

 

[Maxperson]

So what I'm hearing is;

DC 23 check for whatever. I assigned this on the spot based on the situation.

Player 1 has a +1, Player 2 has a +2, Player 3 has a +3, Player 4 has a +4, Player 5 has a +5. (its just an example don't beat it up)

I should tell Player 1 and 2, they can't roll, and Player 3-5 that they can?

But wait, Player 5 gives Guidance to Player 1, so he "might" be able to make it now.

?

A much simpler way to do it, if you opt to gate rolls behind the possibility of success via enough bonuses, is the following. Tell the players in advance that they shouldn't roll if they can't succeed with a 20+modifiers.

DM: "The DC to jump over the gully is 23. Roll if you are making the attempt."

The guy with +1 isn't going to make the attempt or roll since he already knows it's impossible due to his +1. Or if you didn't give the DC until mid air, he plummets to his doooooom. Muahahahaha! If guidance is granted in advance of the attempt, the guy with +1 can make the guidance roll and if he doesn't roll a 1, he can try to make it across.

That way you as DM don't need to track anything and you can just leave it to the players to figure out.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I didn't say anything about "next time." I am totally on board with "you mastered it; it is no longer an obstacle for you" until the circumstances change. How did you get the impression otherwise?

Ok, apologies, I got that wrong, but I have got the distinct impression that people that have a problem with the new rule have the habit of setting task DCs as an independent property of the game world.

 

[Lanefan]

The DCs don't matter, it's whether it's possible, not certain, and failure has meaningful consequences.

If anything, the new rule fixes a glitch in the old rule (DM calling for a check that the DC makes impossible... and therefore paradoxically should not have been called. )

Unless the DM either a) doesn't want the players to know it's impossible if they roll low and only have them learn it's impossible if someone rolls a 20, or b) wants to use the roll to inform the degree of failure and-or its narration, or c) wants to use this as a throwaway roll in order to disguise other more significant rolls.

 

[Lanefan]

I think this is where the disconnect like. You think that the DC is 23 irrespective of whomever is attempting the climb and the next time they try it is also DC 23.
Is the wall as more like a puzzle. If Bob needs a DC 23 climb to climb the wall and makes it, he does not need to roll the next time he tries that wall. He knows the way up, no need to roll unless something has occurred to make it more difficult.

No. IMO Bob still needs to roll every time, because if it's that difficult climbing it once is no guarantee of being able to climb it again.

That said, the roll might come with a small cumulative "done this before" bonus for each time Bob has previously made it up this same wall until eventually he has it down pat after a few dozen goes at it; but the second climb would by no means be auto-succeed.

 

[Bill Zebub]

No. IMO Bob still needs to roll every time, because if it's that difficult climbing it once is no guarantee of being able to climb it again.

That said, the roll might come with a small cumulative "done this before" bonus for each time Bob has previously made it up this same wall until eventually he has it down pat after a few dozen goes at it; but the second climb would by no means be auto-succeed.

Since you are so into verisimilitude, you may want to sanity check that with an actual climber.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

No. IMO Bob still needs to roll every time, because if it's that difficult climbing it once is no guarantee of being able to climb it again.

That said, the roll might come with a small cumulative "done this before" bonus for each time Bob has previously made it up this same wall until eventually he has it down pat after a few dozen goes at it; but the second climb would by no means be auto-succeed.

@Lanefan Did you ever climb a tree when you were young, and did you ever meet a tree that you could climb one day but not another day?

Aside from that, that is the way I do it. I really do not care how you or others do it. That it your business.

 

[Lanefan]

@Lanefan Did you ever climb a tree when you were young, and did you ever meet a tree that you could climb one day but not another day?

Many a time, and my knees have the scars to prove it. (though it was more often steep banks at the beach rather than trees)