Automatic Quicken Spell and metamagic

[andargor]

I thought I'd try a different quote this time.

Say an 11th-level wizard has an Intelligence of 15. Can the wizard prepare a teleport spell (5th-level spell) enhanced with the Silent Spell metamagic feat and thus use a 6th-level spell slot that the character (thanks to low Intelligence) could not use to prepare a 6th-level spell?

Using a metamagic feat makes the spell occupy a spell slot of higher level, but it does not actually change the spell’s level, except for Heighten Spell, which does increase the spell’s level. So long as the wizard in question has enough Intelligence to cast the spell at its actual level (15 for the 5th-level teleport spell) the character can cast the metamagic spell. Note that the character doesn’t have to use metamagic to use the 6th-level spell slot; the character can simply prepare any lower level spell in the slot.

Granted, some people don't consider this official, but for me anyway it clarifies the issue.

Andargor

 

[rtricher]

Sorry FEADIN but with respect to RAW you are wrong IMO the metamagic feats do not change the spell level which is prerequisite for the Automatic Quicken..

One more time you overlook what the text says for Empower....
EMPOWER SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.
Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level

The description of automatic quicken says "The character may cast all 0-, 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-level spells as quickened spells without using higher-level spell slots."
Nowhere it is written that Automatic Quicken overrule the text of Empower, you have to use a higher level spell slot to empower, you cannot use Automatic Quicken because it becomes a 5th level slot and the definition is exclusive:"....without using higher-level spell slots".

Maybe you're right but I think that the way I read it is the rule (intended) and they overlooked the spelling or some détails as in numerous other texts, they scaled it down because with multispell taken 2 or more times spellcasters would become Thermonuclear bomb.

The part that I find tricky is:

Will the empowered fireball be cast using a third or fifth level slot, I think with respect to RAW it will in fact only use a third level spell.. Which of course means that you could actually have a silenced stilled empowered widened fireball cast as a free action for a third level slot because :"...without using higher-level spell slots".

Anyway definitely a confusiing issue.

 

[andargor]

A reminder, as FEADIN and others pointed out, Automatic Quicken Spell now only automatically quickens spells of 0-1st level (+1 level for each additional instance of the feat). So even with the interpretation that metamagicked spells are eligible, brokenness is limited.

Don't forget that this is only available at the 27th level, with maxed Spellcraft and the ability to cast 9th level spells.

Andargor

 

[Sledge]

FEADIN you're right that the auto quicken doesn't increase the spell slot required, so therefore a fireball that is auto quickened uses a 3rd level slot. 3+0=3 right? An empowered fireball that is auto quickened uses a 5th level slot 3+0+2=5 right? No where in the effects of automatic quicken does it state that the spell slot must be in the levels, just the spell itself must be of an appropriate level.