John R Davis
Hero
It's the only one of the big new mods we haven't played to completion. Some good ideas but just a bit meh.
D&D 5E Avernus Any Good?
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
Well, cause you asked:
Most of the individual parts are good, but mixing them together isn't exactly a peanut butter and chocolate level combination.
To fix up the Adventure:
Chapter one.
The BG Chapter is incogruent with the rest of the book. The book encourages you to make a morally grey character with a dark secret because of drama, then expects the same characters to heroically risk going to hell for the good of a totally different country. The first dungeon really demands that your DM softballs you, lest your entire party be TPKed because someone thought it was a swell idea for a bunch of level 2 characters to fight a wizard with access to Fireball. (At 36 average damage, not even a barbarian can tank that.) Along the way the party is introduced to not one but two tag-along NPCs who actually care about Elutrel because the story demands such a thing to actually work, and as established none of the characters are likely to do so beyond the immediate threat of "It could happen here too."
That said, if you ever want to start something in Baldur’s Gate, this book has oodles for that, even custom backgrounds.
Chapter two.
It immediately starts off with an ostensibly good aligned level 18 wizard casting plane shift on your party to get into Avernus, who then immediately casts Time-Stop to get the hell out of hell, leaving your party, and the entire city of innocent people to their fates. High level NPCs not doing anything useful in FR is kind of a dead horse, but come on!
Other than that initial souring, the chapter is one of the better ones in the book. You wind your way across the city looking for survivors, there are a few non-combat encounters with devils, demons, and other evil things to get the party into the mindspace of "Oh, you can actually talk to these things." But also several encounters that are just for violence to remind them that everything in Avernus can and will kill them if so inclined. The chapter ends with most of the NPCs your party has gathered deciding to stay in the city to protect it (I'm looking at you, Wizard, you could have at least done this much) while the players sneak past The Blood War happening under the city to find the McGuffin.
Chapter Three.
Lulu, the amnesiac comic-relief sidekick, leads the party on a while goose chase for a holy sword across the plane, while the party wheels and deals with it's less than scrupulous inhabitants. It's worth noting that you can actually just randomly not end up with the McGuffin at all due to the mechanics of this chapter. The actual plot of this chapter is getting her memories back, and then having someone else tell you where the sword is despite all that hard work you put in.
This is also the start of the "Mad Max" bit of the book. However there is a problem with it, the Vehicles run off of souls. Good characters are going to balk at using them (even if the rule text says it's good to spend a soul coin like this) because it just kind of feels squicky, and evil characters aren't going to risk their necks for this adventure in the first place. There is a splitting path here, but due to the nature of the chapter you are likely to hit up both paths anyway. This is both a good and a bad thing, as the story arc is split up between the two paths, but then again the story arc is split up over two paths so it is also possible to not have half of the story.
In the back of the book there are rules for Infernal Contracts and Devil Charms, which makes this book great if you ever want to do a 5e theme-park tour of Avernus.
Chapter Four.
The PCs find the sword, then enter a memory which is really just a wave-based endurance arena match with some cutscenes thrown in for flavor. Once again, it is actually possible to not get the McGuffin due to the mechanics of this chapter. There isn't actually all that much in this chapter that can be used outside of the adventure itself.
Chapter five.
The entire campaign hinges on a single skill check. If you use the sword and pass you get the good ending. Which is bummer because the bad endings (and there are multiple ways to fail forward in this chapter) are so much more engaging. They include selling your soul to Zariel, unmaking a devilish contract, cutting a deal with a pit fiend or selling one out, allying with Tiamat or one of the Demon Lords, and potentially taking over Avernus for yourself.
The BG Chapter is incogruent with the rest of the book. The book encourages you to make a morally grey character with a dark secret because of drama, then expects the same characters to heroically risk going to hell for the good of a totally different country. The first dungeon really demands that your DM softballs you, lest your entire party be TPKed because someone thought it was a swell idea for a bunch of level 2 characters to fight a wizard with access to Fireball. (At 36 average damage, not even a barbarian can tank that.) Along the way the party is introduced to not one but two tag-along NPCs who actually care about Elutrel because the story demands such a thing to actually work, and as established none of the characters are likely to do so beyond the immediate threat of "It could happen here too."
That said, if you ever want to start something in Baldur’s Gate, this book has oodles for that, even custom backgrounds.
Chapter two.
It immediately starts off with an ostensibly good aligned level 18 wizard casting plane shift on your party to get into Avernus, who then immediately casts Time-Stop to get the hell out of hell, leaving your party, and the entire city of innocent people to their fates. High level NPCs not doing anything useful in FR is kind of a dead horse, but come on!
Other than that initial souring, the chapter is one of the better ones in the book. You wind your way across the city looking for survivors, there are a few non-combat encounters with devils, demons, and other evil things to get the party into the mindspace of "Oh, you can actually talk to these things." But also several encounters that are just for violence to remind them that everything in Avernus can and will kill them if so inclined. The chapter ends with most of the NPCs your party has gathered deciding to stay in the city to protect it (I'm looking at you, Wizard, you could have at least done this much) while the players sneak past The Blood War happening under the city to find the McGuffin.
Chapter Three.
Lulu, the amnesiac comic-relief sidekick, leads the party on a while goose chase for a holy sword across the plane, while the party wheels and deals with it's less than scrupulous inhabitants. It's worth noting that you can actually just randomly not end up with the McGuffin at all due to the mechanics of this chapter. The actual plot of this chapter is getting her memories back, and then having someone else tell you where the sword is despite all that hard work you put in.
This is also the start of the "Mad Max" bit of the book. However there is a problem with it, the Vehicles run off of souls. Good characters are going to balk at using them (even if the rule text says it's good to spend a soul coin like this) because it just kind of feels squicky, and evil characters aren't going to risk their necks for this adventure in the first place. There is a splitting path here, but due to the nature of the chapter you are likely to hit up both paths anyway. This is both a good and a bad thing, as the story arc is split up between the two paths, but then again the story arc is split up over two paths so it is also possible to not have half of the story.
In the back of the book there are rules for Infernal Contracts and Devil Charms, which makes this book great if you ever want to do a 5e theme-park tour of Avernus.
Chapter Four.
The PCs find the sword, then enter a memory which is really just a wave-based endurance arena match with some cutscenes thrown in for flavor. Once again, it is actually possible to not get the McGuffin due to the mechanics of this chapter. There isn't actually all that much in this chapter that can be used outside of the adventure itself.
Chapter five.
The entire campaign hinges on a single skill check. If you use the sword and pass you get the good ending. Which is bummer because the bad endings (and there are multiple ways to fail forward in this chapter) are so much more engaging. They include selling your soul to Zariel, unmaking a devilish contract, cutting a deal with a pit fiend or selling one out, allying with Tiamat or one of the Demon Lords, and potentially taking over Avernus for yourself.
To fix up the Adventure:
Chapter 1 needs to Start in Elturel, see Elturel Fall into avernus, and find some way into Avernus that isn't tied to a cowardly wizard. That's at least 50% of the chapter that isn't usable as intended. Starting in the city also means the PCs are bound by the shared fate of all in the city, so literally every character has a legit reason to go into Avernus, even if it is just to selfishly save their own soul.
Chapter two is OK with minor tweaks. Mostly just insert some call-backs to chapter one for a deeper feeling of connection.
Chapter three needs to be streamlined. All the story bits need to be hit instead of randomly missed. You can throw in other locations as needed for padding or to get some supplies and allies.
Chapter 4 could do with the simple failsafe of "Lulu can pick up the sword, even if nobody else can"
Chapter 5 needs to explicitly make it hard to get to Zariel, as part of the final showdown. Then the PCs can decide what kind of ending they are trying to go for.
Chapter two is OK with minor tweaks. Mostly just insert some call-backs to chapter one for a deeper feeling of connection.
Chapter three needs to be streamlined. All the story bits need to be hit instead of randomly missed. You can throw in other locations as needed for padding or to get some supplies and allies.
Chapter 4 could do with the simple failsafe of "Lulu can pick up the sword, even if nobody else can"
Chapter 5 needs to explicitly make it hard to get to Zariel, as part of the final showdown. Then the PCs can decide what kind of ending they are trying to go for.
My opinion: It's the worst adventure Wizards has released for D&D 5E by a fair margin.
There are bits in it I like. But the connections between sections are ludicrously bad. It's an awful sandbox because most of the locations in Avernus AREN'T INTERESTING if you don't go to them as part of the plot.
And even if you follow the plot, it's horribly railroaded.
As in, Lulu says "I don't know why, but you should go to this location" and then once you get there says, "Oh, this is the wrong location". And then you follow her again!
The concept is good. The execution is atrocious.
There are bits in it I like. But the connections between sections are ludicrously bad. It's an awful sandbox because most of the locations in Avernus AREN'T INTERESTING if you don't go to them as part of the plot.
And even if you follow the plot, it's horribly railroaded.
As in, Lulu says "I don't know why, but you should go to this location" and then once you get there says, "Oh, this is the wrong location". And then you follow her again!
The concept is good. The execution is atrocious.
tommybahama
Adventurer
A solution is to use DDAL09-01 Escape from Elturel as a start. It has the party travelling to Elturel for reasons. I suggest changing that to participate in what should be a great celebration. It is the 50th anniversary of the Companion after all. The rest of the adventure has the party witness the downfall of Elturel, meet a Joan of Arc figure, and then rescue the refuges for a trek to Baldur's Gate. It gets the party to level 3 which makes the Dead Three hideout and subsequent events more survivable. The Joan of Arc character can give the party the adventure hook to meet Captain Zodge to help him root out the Dead Three.
Give your party plenty of time to explore the city between events. They should have some gold to spend after DDAL09-01. It will give you an opportunity to present Baldur's Gate as corrupted but not beyond redemption and worthy of saving from Elturel's fate.
The adventures I really like in this edition are Tyranny of Dragons (one of my favourite adventures of all time, though it requires work from the DM), Storm King's Thunder and Curse of Strahd. All three can be run very badly, but if you understand the structure, they work quite well.
Tomb of Annihilation could be there, but I have a few issues with it. It doesn't thrill me as Tyranny does.
Cheers!
Helldritch
Hero
On an other note. You can repair your books yourself. I repaired my 3 PHBs and my MM with a sharpened flat screw driver to scrape the old glue off. Then I used:" Elmer's Craft Bond, Tacky Glue." Amazon sells this for pretty cheap and this glue will stay flexible. It is meant for cloth and book bonding so this should work very well. I know that my players were surprised by the results. It is a lot cheaper than buying another book.
Todd Roybark
Hero
I have to say I hate Storm King's Thunder, beyond the pandering and over dependence on old lore, the plot is so convoluted.
Just reading the plot overview, makes me not want to play it. The first encounter, with the ridiculous shaped Cloud Giant Tower seals it. I can't even finish reading, SKT
Tyranny of Dragons is fine, Out of the Abyss has some good early encounters, but tries to be so massive, it just isn't too impactful. Princes of the Apocalypse is fine, but whenever a I read it, I know in my heart I will take parts and add it to the Original Temple of Elemental Evil, and run that instead. Dragon Heist has good bones, change the plot, of course. The module has value to the DM in terms of some pretty solid encounters. Dungeon of the Mad Maze is great, for just producing the single most complete version of Undermountain, EVER.
Tomb of Annihilation is great.
Avernus is almost at the level of Out of the Abyss, but not quite.
Just reading the plot overview, makes me not want to play it. The first encounter, with the ridiculous shaped Cloud Giant Tower seals it. I can't even finish reading, SKT
Tyranny of Dragons is fine, Out of the Abyss has some good early encounters, but tries to be so massive, it just isn't too impactful. Princes of the Apocalypse is fine, but whenever a I read it, I know in my heart I will take parts and add it to the Original Temple of Elemental Evil, and run that instead. Dragon Heist has good bones, change the plot, of course. The module has value to the DM in terms of some pretty solid encounters. Dungeon of the Mad Maze is great, for just producing the single most complete version of Undermountain, EVER.
Tomb of Annihilation is great.
Avernus is almost at the level of Out of the Abyss, but not quite.
Weiley31
Legend
I actually have a solution for the Avernus Mad Max vehicle when it comes to whether or not the good characters use the Soul Coins.
Give bad characters, and good characters the temptation, of using Soul Coins.
For a good only party: introduce an Item or something that converts Demons/Devils as the power source for the Hell Vehicles. Devil May Cry that aspect up ala the red orbs.
Or you can have the Shield of The Hidden Lord do the power converting.
Give bad characters, and good characters the temptation, of using Soul Coins.
For a good only party: introduce an Item or something that converts Demons/Devils as the power source for the Hell Vehicles. Devil May Cry that aspect up ala the red orbs.
Or you can have the Shield of The Hidden Lord do the power converting.
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tommybahama
Adventurer
Was it Skyrim that had the soul gems? Maybe have Gargoth tell the party they can release the soul inside the soul coin (release it from its contract?). The empty soul coin can then be filled with the soul of a devil that is killed in combat.
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