Awakened Animals, awakened offspring?

[Mahali]

Nothing in the rules, common sense or balance evens suggests offspring would be Awakened nor would I let them be in my game.

It's magic. Being made magically smart does not mean your kids will be. This is not a trait to be passed on genetically, it's an instant alteration of your brain structure, not DNA.

If you want in your game as a plot point who would argue? It's your game.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Nothing in the rules, common sense or balance evens suggests offspring would be Awakened nor would I let them be in my game.

It's magic. Being made magically smart does not mean your kids will be. This is not a trait to be passed on genetically, it's an instant alteration of your brain structure, not DNA.

If you want in your game as a plot point who would argue? It's your game.

Apparently you will ... j/k

Seriously though, there is nothing for or against it in the rules, so what I'm hearing (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is something like "It's not making sense, it's magic, no factual evidence (genetics, rules, or sense) supports your position, and I'd rule it differently, but that's my game. Play your game and have fun."

Did I get that about right? Because what the critical point in there is that amuses me so much is the 'it's magic' and 'it's not making sense'...

Who said magic had to be sensical? With your statements, I'd argue that any such creature magically enhanced had an aura of magic and took temporary int damage wandering around in an anti-magic zone



All kidding aside, a logical explanation (logic and magic? lol) would probably go along the lines of the magic altering the very DNA of the beast to support the changes in it's brain that grant it intelligence. Thus, it could be assumed that such DNA traits would be dominant in successive generations.


Do I think it should work this way? Heck no, anybody who allows this without thinking it through is going to be sorry... (how long do elves live? how many generations of pigs/horses/chickens/goats/sheep could one elven farmer breed together?) In my case, you're right, it's my game, and it sounds like fun to me.

Apologies and Sorry if you didn't get the 'fun' part of it


fyi - this post is in no way intended to be offensive, defensive, inflammatory, condescending, depressing, spiritualistic or ritualistic. Any concept other than 'amusement' or 'humor' derived from this post is solely the responsibility of the reader. Any similarities of this post, or disclaimer, to any other is purely coincidental and should immediately be discounted as unintentional.

 

[mhd]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but how can books that involve rape, and other extreme hardships to characters be considered saccarine? Are we talking about the same books?

Maybe it's just me and some serious psychological problems
I just got fed up with the whole group hug mentality going on amongst the heralds, who really wuuv their horsies etc. More with the style of writing than the actual contents. Can't stand Eddings on similar grounds. (Though I have a soft spot for Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness stuff. Go figure.)

Anyway, to get back on semi-topic: We've talked about reincarnation, which always fits in nicely with Awaken and with druids in general. But what about afterlifes? With whom does a Dead Awakened Pony Soul mingle? If there's a separate horsey heaven, won't this be terribly boring for the DAPS? Or will it lead a Mr. Ed existance in Immensely Big Tree Town For Dead Elf Souls?

And to get back on the original track: Considering that druids care quite a lot about nature being in balance, wouldn't hereditary awakenings kinda put a lid on this, especially with creatures with numerous progeny?
So if you're a really clever poodle, you better get some druid class levels before your little lady litters...

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Maybe it's just me and some serious psychological problems
I just got fed up with the whole group hug mentality going on amongst the heralds, who really wuuv their horsies etc. More with the style of writing than the actual contents. Can't stand Eddings on similar grounds. (Though I have a soft spot for Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness stuff. Go figure.)

Anyway, to get back on semi-topic: We've talked about reincarnation, which always fits in nicely with Awaken and with druids in general. But what about afterlifes? With whom does a Dead Awakened Pony Soul mingle? If there's a separate horsey heaven, won't this be terribly boring for the DAPS? Or will it lead a Mr. Ed existance in Immensely Big Tree Town For Dead Elf Souls?

And to get back on the original track: Considering that druids care quite a lot about nature being in balance, wouldn't hereditary awakenings kinda put a lid on this, especially with creatures with numerous progeny?
So if you're a really clever poodle, you better get some druid class levels before your little lady litters...

wrt to heralds and M. Lackey - Okay you've got a pt there - excluding the magics price series. What about the Shn'a'in series? There's some not so saccharine material for ya

wrt to the on-topic comments:
Huh? Granted I'm only on my first cuppa this morning, but that just didn't seem to make a whole lotta sense

Although I like the DAPS abbreviation

How does reincarnate play with awaken??... My MadCow druids will re-incarnate dead sentients as other animals - reincarnate preserves intelligence.

They'll also run around 'awakening' non-sentient animals, potentially even re-incarnating them when they die (armies of squirrels form up to protect the 'wise' druids aiding them...)

Souls are souls and have no intelligence - I'm not even sure if Druids would believe in an afterlife - doesn't reincarnation mythos' kind of conflict with that in a whole buddhism/hinduism vs christianity way?

And as far as nature being in balance - consider Humanoids to be part of nature. Suddenly, with a slight interpretive stance, nature is imbalanced - humans keep killing off the poor forest animals (like thumper and bambi) who can't defend themselves... answer: awaken the animals. Now it's an even fight between a silverback grizzly and a town of people .

 

[mhd]

wrt to heralds and M. Lackey - Okay you've got a pt there - excluding the magics price series. What about the Shn'a'in series? There's some not so saccharine material for ya

As I didn't really care that much about the first trilogy, I stopped there. Is the rest better?

wrt to the on-topic comments:
Huh? Granted I'm only on my first cuppa this morning, but that just didn't seem to make a whole lotta sense

I'm talking about awakening animals in an ecumenic sense, i.e. withouth assuming that the druidic world view is the absolute truth. You say that souls have no intelligence, so they are independent from our personality. If that's true, Awaken isn't problematic. But what if the usual polytheistic view is true? Your soul comes from somewhere, gets put in a body and when that body dies it will ascend to the realm of a certain god. So you're the only intelligent crocodile in the Eternal Happy Swamps. Bummer.

And as far as nature being in balance - consider Humanoids to be part of nature. Suddenly, with a slight interpretive stance, nature is imbalanced - humans keep killing off the poor forest animals (like thumper and bambi) who can't defend themselves... answer: awaken the animals. Now it's an even fight between a silverback grizzly and a town of people

So why do human druids have to intervene, can't nature solve it by itself? But yeah, an interesting storyline. Animal Farm on a bigger scale. How corrupted have the animals become yet?

IMHO it'd be better for the druids to develop some kind of "Lobotomy" spell that brings humanoids back to a feral stage. Much better in the end

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

As I didn't really care that much about the first trilogy, I stopped there. Is the rest better?

yes - actually, on a scale from 1 to 10, considering each series in a chronological sense as it was placed in the world, you get a nice inverted bell curve. The best stories are either early or late

Go read the oathbound/oathsworn set of books (3 all told, but not a true trilogy) and *tell* me you don't like the intelligent dire wolf Warrl

I'm talking about awakening animals in an ecumenic sense, i.e. withouth assuming that the druidic world view is the absolute truth. You say that souls have no intelligence, so they are independent from our personality. If that's true, Awaken isn't problematic. But what if the usual polytheistic view is true? Your soul comes from somewhere, gets put in a body and when that body dies it will ascend to the realm of a certain god. So you're the only intelligent crocodile in the Eternal Happy Swamps. Bummer.

Let's not stray off into real world meta-physics and theology

within the game: Druids, by their nature, worship Nature. Druids, therefore, most likely believe in re-incarnation (unless you're a druid of some deity, which changes things), thus there is no afterlife.

So why do human druids have to intervene, can't nature solve it by itself? But yeah, an interesting storyline. Animal Farm on a bigger scale. How corrupted have the animals become yet?

IMHO it'd be better for the druids to develop some kind of "Lobotomy" spell that brings humanoids back to a feral stage. Much better in the end

Druids intervene as humans on the side of nature since humans have intervened on the other side, in order to preserve the balance.

Hadn't thought of animal farm That assumes the different species can communicate - which they might.

Lobotomy doesn't exist, but reincarnation does...

anyway - peace.

 

[Terraism]

I've got a home brewed world, Umaria, and a kingdom Lammoria on a given continent. On this coninent, I have a druidic organization loosely bound together by a set of beliefs, that actively oppose the older, traditional, conservative druidic organizations that exist.
The cult is called, by lay peoples, the Cult of the Mad Cow. The cult calls themselves the Divine Utterers of Continuity. You can see where the nickname comes from... To make a long story short - their reasoning, based on their precepts, are as follows: 1) All creatures have souls, 2) Animals are sacred, 3) There is a finite number of souls in the world. 4) Sentient creatures that die have their soul go to a new sentient creature of the same type (people, generally). 5) Reincarnating dead people as animals result in intelligent animals. 6) Therefore dead people MUST be reincarnated as animals. No, their relatives can't decide this for them, it'll just have to happen.

By that logic, how do they account for population increases over time? I mean, if there's only a finite number, where are the extras coming from? Extending that further, where are the souls for awakened animals coming from? (I'm tempted to make a "dun-dun-dah!" sound, but I won't! )

 

[fnork de sporg]

within the game: Druids, by their nature, worship Nature. Druids, therefore, most likely believe in re-incarnation (unless you're a druid of some deity, which changes things), thus there is no afterlife.

But in d&d the afterlife is a objective truth, a one would think generally accepted fact. At high enough levels you can actually go there and beat up the once living petitioners! Plus, many druids worship gods, both nature gods and others, and obviously those gods would have their own afterlives.