BAB 20+! (not epic BAB, regular)

[heliopolix]

Whilst on a looong bus ride a week ago, I set to doing those age-old tricks of the bored DnD player. From the powergamey camp came the desire to find new evil ways to do insane damage on a maxcrit. From the roleplayey(sp?) camp came the urge to design new and interesting characters. The forethcoming result has lineage from both sides. He's an ex-knight, with a duke for a father and an tavern wench for a mother, who was banished from his lands for his tendancy to be unpredictable ( a trait his king disliked). He now wanders as a champion for the free-spirited, and retains several of his loyal companions from his byegone days, although lately the bloodlust that nearly got him expelled from the court in his younger days seems to have surfaced again.

Powergamers can look at the char, Ruleslawyers, plz look at my Question down near the end of the post, Ppl who will be offended by the cheese: apologies in advance.

Hrankore the Unstable, built from 3.5 PHB, DMG, CW

Barb1/Ftr6/Cavalier10/Ronin2/Frenzied Berzerker1

He advanced as such:

Lvl..........Feats

Ftr1........Power Attack,WpnFoc(Lance), Mounted Combat
Ftr2........Ride-By Attack
Ftr3........Cleave
Ftr4........Spirited Charge
Ftr5
Barb1......Intimidateing Rage
Ftr6........Destructive Rage
FrzBzk1
Cavalier1.Leadership
Cavalier2
Cavalier3
Cavalier4.WpnFoc(Scythe)
Cavalier5
Cavalier6
Cavalier7.WpnSpec(Scythe)
Cavalier8
Cavalier9
Cavalier10.ExoticWpnProf(Bast.Sword)
Ronin1
Ronin2

Str 18 @ 1st, +5 for lvls, +4 rage, +6 frenzy = 33 (+11)
Here's his followers (aint nuthing wrong with followers having the Leadership feat as well.. think chain-of-command)

Directly under Hrankore
Garben the Garrulous : Ftr10/ Kensai8.

Under Garben P):
Kirrowist the Fair-tongued : Bard1/Ftr7/Kensai8.

Kirrowist's Journeyman:
Ballrik Findworth : Bard1/Ftr5/Kensai8.

I could go the LD tree down the line to get a few more followers, like some buff wizzies and clerics, etc. but i decided not to (read: got bored).

Hrankore's trick: He uses the lvl 10 Cavalier ability, Unstoppable charge to get a x7 crit with his scythe (x4 scythe + x4 melee damage = x7 by DnD math). Into this, he sinks his entire BAB via PA, plus the Banzai charge from the ronin (which is like PA, but its -AC/+dam, 1:1, min -2, max BAB).

The math for the Full PA Two Handed Raging Frenzied Unstoppable Banzai Scythe Charge Max Critical of Doom:

Scythe..8
W.S......+2
Str.......+11
2H........+5
2HPA....+40
Banzai..+20
--------------
Pre-crit..86
............x7
--------------
Crit.......602

As nasty as that is, His followers make it far worse...
The Kensai LVL 8 ability, Instill, allows you to bestow skills, saves, BAB, up to 1 point/ Kensai lvl. This means that Hrankore gets fed 34 points of BAB (+10,+8,+8,+8).

Lets look at that chart again, only with a 54 BAB instead of a 20 BAB.

The math for the Kensai Augmented Full PA Two Handed Raging Frenzied Unstoppable Banzai Scythe Charge Max Critical of DOOM!:

Scythe..8
W.S......+2
Str.......+11
2H........+5
2HPA....+108
Banzai..+54
--------------
Pre-crit..188
............x7
--------------
Crit.......1316.

And this is w/ no magic equpment. With buffs, etc it gets even worse b/c every +1 to the base damage = +7 on the crit.

QUESTION HERE:

Just wanted to see what anyone thinks of it, and also want to bring up the rules question about stacking the BAB from the different Kensai's. Or, even just one 10th lvl Kensai giving a Ftr20 (actually anyone w/ 20 BAB will do) plus 10 BAB. Since its BAB (and not epic-BAB) it can be used for PA, etc, right. Also does it give iterative attacks? in the above case, BAB 54 would presumably give 11 attacks . (Again, since its BAB, not epic-BAB, and BAB gives iterative attacks, and epic-BAB doesnt).

For our cheese-allergic readers: this post is mostly in jest, im just looking at a possible exploit that exists, and looking for what I can expect thowing this beast at my players, should i ever run an epic campaign. He's only CR 20... hehehe.

EDIT .. Forgot to put in WpnSpec to damage chart, fixed now.

 

[Korak]

Barb1/Ftr6/Cavalier10/Ronin2/Frenzied Berzerker1

He advanced as such:

Lvl..........Feats

Ftr1........Power Attack,WpnFoc(Lance), Mounted Combat
Ftr2........Ride-By Attack
Ftr3........Cleave
Ftr4........Spirited Charge
Ftr5
Barb1......Intimidateing Rage
Ftr6........Destructive Rage
FrzBzk1
Cavalier1.Leadership
Cavalier2
Cavalier3
Cavalier4.WpnFoc(Scythe)
Cavalier5
Cavalier6
Cavalier7.WpnSpec(Scythe)
Cavalier8
Cavalier9
Cavalier10.ExoticWpnProf(Bast.Sword)
Ronin1
Ronin2

Minor nit pick... destructive rage is cannot be taken as a fighter bonus feat. You can just rearrange your first 7 levels though to get around that.

I'm not going to say anything about a cadre of very honorable, very lawful kensai under the command of such an erratic, chaotic leader. I'm sure adequate background material explains how this came to be, and how it doesn't violate the kensai's code of honor to serve a Ronin.

Anyway, no matter how unlikely, it is a noteworthy stacking of damage.

 

[heliopolix]

ah youre right.. but what if said Kensai had sworn to defend him to the death.. before he finally snapped and was exiled. then they'd be in a pickle. and the leader could easily be a lawful ftr8/cavalier10/ronin2 with a slightly lower damage output. I was struggling with the whole Barb/FB part in there, and finally stuck it in b/c that +10 to str looked mighty fine on a x7 crit. Logic be damned .. but truly, i would probably run this character as the Ftr/cav/ronin instead.


and yah my bad on Destr Rage. I typed this up off some very scribbled notes. I was workng in pen on a very bumpy bus ride.

 

[Planesdragon]

Just wanted to see what anyone thinks of it, and also want to bring up the rules question about stacking the BAB from the different Kensai's. Or, even just one 10th lvl Kensai giving a Ftr20 (actually anyone w/ 20 BAB will do) plus 10 BAB.

Only one kensai should be able to give the bonus at any one time. In general, the same bonus from the same power does not stack. (i.e., if two clerics cast bless on you, you still only get a single +1 morale bonus.)

Since its BAB (and not epic-BAB) it can be used for PA, etc, right. Also does it give iterative attacks?

Yes on the Power Attack (fear power attacking dragons!), no on the iterative attacks.

Once you have twenty levels of BAB, you don't get any extra iterative attacks, regardless of the source. A 50-HD titain should NOT get ten iterative attacks.

 

[heliopolix]

First off, thnx for the replies on the BAB. I had it stuck somewhere in my head that epic BAB doesnt provide any further iterative attacks(which it doesnt), and hadnt GM'ed enought to think about the monsters w/ BAB = HD and HD > 20. Of course you are correct about BAB < 20. Although, i think people would run from the titan w/ 10 attacks. Titans are supposed to be scary. Arrg. Especially pirate ninja titans.

As to the different Infuses stacking, I am still wondering b/c it is an (Ex) and not a (Sp) or (Su) ability. the closest i could come to similar "bolstering" is the bards Inspire Courage, which doesnt stack with other bards songs, but its a (Su) so that doesnt help the case really. My big problem is that Infuse provides an Unnamed bonus to BAB, and base saves. I concede in the end though, that it probably doesnt stack since it is the same ability, just from different people.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

All that's really missing is the pile 'o magical buffing that you need...

Now what's the lowest level adjustment you can get for a gargantuan character? (with hands). Ought to up that scythe damage a wee bit.

You'd qualify for a collosal mount at that point. Difficult choice here: Do you go Tarrasque or Great Wyrm Red Dragon?

Edit: On second thoughts how about a Titan with Righteous Might? That'd end up 'gargantuanly' amusing.

 

[heliopolix]

yah, you can season the buffing to taste, and a righteous might solution would be pretty cool, but you would need to get at least 4 points of str per point of BAB lost (b/c each point of BAB = 3 damage, and str +4 = +3 dam when weilding 2h) .

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Especially pirate ninja titans.

Alright, now you're just being silly. Everyone knows pirates are the natural enemies of ninjas!

EDIT: I'm SURE that I've read somewhere that monster BAB can provide a fifth iterative attack, and that's the way they have it in the MM.

 

[CRGreathouse]

EDIT: I'm SURE that I've read somewhere that monster BAB can provide a fifth iterative attack, and that's the way they have it in the MM.

In 3.0 this is true in the core books, but contradicted by the ELH. An example is the solar.

In 3.5 this isn't true; 4 iterative attacks is the max for nonmonks.

 

[reiella]

Alright, now you're just being silly. Everyone knows pirates are the natural enemies of ninjas!

EDIT: I'm SURE that I've read somewhere that monster BAB can provide a fifth iterative attack, and that's the way they have it in the MM.

In 3.0 there was an exception to that rule that was never really explained (the Solar). In 3.5, his attacks were fixed. Monsters may get an extra attack in a similar manner to players (Flurry, Multi-Weapon Fighting, etc), but it is a bonus attack and not an extra iterative attack (Even the monk just grants an exta attack at this point).