BAB to Skill based?

[ValhallaGH]

See thats a gross stereo type,

No, it's a choice made at character creation. Mercenary warrior, valiant knight, murderous thug and barbaric champion are all archetypes that many characters are built to resemble. Not everyone wants to play a warrior, just like not everyone wants to use magic. There's no stereotyping involved because I'm not assigning a method or requirement for the warriors, merely stating that it is as valid a character type as Akbar the Rug Merchant.

Do you think every "Barbarian" has got to fight?, why?

I think everyone with levels in the class "barbarian" has got to fight. Why? Because the class is a barbaric warrior who taps into his primal nature to be better at combat. If it's something else then it needs to have its class features completely changed (fast movement, HD, rage, uncanny dodge, DR and trap sense).

Thats insane lol, by that "logic" Rog should have their sneak, hide, open lock, etc already bought for them automaticly, same goes for Wiz, they would get spellcraft wether they wanted it or not, thats the worse forced type of character I can imagine,

By your logic, all Rogues are sneaks, lock pickers, and pick pockets. We both know that's not the case. That's why they get skill points, so they can choose which type of Rogue they want to be. I agree that they shouldn't get sneak attack for free (or am I the only to think this?) but instead should have it as an option they can select if it is appropriate for their individual character.

How is this not hypocrisy? Rogue levels represent being a skillful character, not being a kidney-shoting murder. The two are not mutually exclusive but they are seperate choices.

On the other hand, Fighter levels represent being a good combatant. (Let me know if you disagree.)
As such, a Fighter should be automatically good in a fight, the same way a Rogue automatically gets a lot of skill or a Wizard automatically gets to be a powerful magic user. Anything else (such as your proposal) means that Fighter levels don't represent trying to become a good combatant. They might but they don't have to. Instead a 'Fighter' could take all of his new skill points and become a good rider that can scare the pants off of people but is completely useless in a fight. Now the class isn't what it claims to be, and you've violated the assuption of 'class as career'.

What?! lol, okay

But, you didn't. You just replied immediately without even considering everything I'd said and what it meant. :'(

My advice is to pick up the World of Darkness 4th edition, or the Shadow Run 4th edition and start turning all their rules into a d20 basis. You'll get the desired results and have a road map for getting there.

Edit: Oh, yeah! Good luck with it. I hope it turns out as good as you're hoping for.

 

[librarius_arcana]

Oy! That's 1st Edition AD&D you're talking about there!

Yeah but didn't that go the way of the do do for some reason


It's dead jim.......

 

[librarius_arcana]

Don't make BAB skill based - it ruins the entire cnept you ar going after IMO.

Drop BAB totally and instead make it combat skill based based on weapons.

Alternity had a system with broad skills and specialty skills (by weapon type) that was used to determine if you hit and the quality of the hit itself.

For example some "broad" skill were:

Ranged Weapons and some of its speciality skills were - rifle, pistol, etc.

But I thought that was what I was doing, (btw got Alternity, great for Farscape)

 

[Sravoff]

I am begginning to see dice pools here

Any way, one way to introduce a 3/4 progression is to give every one, in addition to character level, a combat level. This combat level would increase at the same rate as classes old BAB would have.
All 1/2 BAB classes add .5 to their Combat Level for each level they have attained
All 3/4 BAB classes add .75 to their Combat Level for each level they have attained
All full BAB classes add 1.0 to their Combat Level for each level they have attained

So a third level sorcerer, fourth level fighter would have a Combat Level of 5.5, or five, rounded down.

Combat Level would determine max ranks for combat skills, the way character level determines max ranks for RAW skills.

Every five points over the target "defense roll" add 1d6 damage,

there you ahve a couple more cents from me...
-Sravoff

 

[irdeggman]

But I thought that was what I was doing, (btw got Alternity, great for Farscape)

Not really.

The term BAB applies to all attack rolls and is class based. It is a very broad thing and not at all specialized since it applies to everything. What I meant was to drop the entire concept of BAB.

What you are trying to do, as I see it, is to create a system for combat that revolves around specific weapons (like Alternity as I pointed out). This would instead of using a BAB use specific skill checks (of some kind) depending on the weapon.

As others have pointed out a dice pool system (like shadowrun for example) is something that can give you decent ideas to "borrow" from.

 

[Bront]

As I've played more RPGs, I have more and more trouble with the idea that you aim any attack with your Strength.

Try playing baseball.

Seriously. Stronger players can often get more hits because they have an edge in swinging and controling the bat over other players. Now, skill is involved as well, but strength can help make up for a lack of skill.

In game terms, a stronger character can swing a bit faster, which makes it harder to defend. They can also overcome defenses that other weaker characters can't (Some armor, shields, parrys, etc). Skill helps dictate where they strike and how they go about it, but strength does play an important factor.

 

[librarius_arcana]

Not really.

The term BAB applies to all attack rolls and is class based. It is a very broad thing and not at all specialized since it applies to everything. What I meant was to drop the entire concept of BAB.

What you are trying to do, as I see it, is to create a system for combat that revolves around specific weapons (like Alternity as I pointed out). This would instead of using a BAB use specific skill checks (of some kind) depending on the weapon.

As others have pointed out a dice pool system (like shadowrun for example) is something that can give you decent ideas to "borrow" from.

Yes that is what I have already said I was doing

(btw no shadowrun here, so I wouldn't know)

 

[irdeggman]

Yes that is what I have already said I was doing

(btw no shadowrun here, so I wouldn't know)

Yes I was correct?

If so then the entire term BAB is confusing in that system. That is my point. Don't even use it or the concept of a "Base" attack bonus and instead stay focused on a "Weapon" attack bonus that is totally independent of any type of general universal bonus to attacks (i.e., base attack bonus).

That is all I was talking about.

Essentially you are looking at a type of Weapon Focus only translated into a skill system.

West End Star Wars also had a dice pool system that worked in a similar manner - via specializations in a "type" of weapon.

 

[librarius_arcana]

Yes I was correct?

If so then the entire term BAB is confusing in that system. That is my point. Don't even use it or the concept of a "Base" attack bonus and instead stay focused on a "Weapon" attack bonus that is totally independent of any type of general universal bonus to attacks (i.e., base attack bonus).

That is all I was talking about.

Essentially you are looking at a type of Weapon Focus only translated into a skill system.

West End Star Wars also had a dice pool system that worked in a similar manner - via specializations in a "type" of weapon.

That was my whole point, dropping bab and replacing with skills, (but in effect the "Area" part of this skill structure would in a limited way work in a bab fashion)
don't really won't to use specializations, things tend to get to bitty

I think the two tiers of Area (first) then skills (second) is enough,

The only thing I have issue with right now is getting the right (bulk per level) skill points worked out, I mean how many points would a single point of bab be worth in skills?,

 

[irdeggman]

So in essence you wish to restore the concept of 2nd ed weapon proficiencies, am I reading that correctly?

I beleive that is where you will end up at. Each class getting a certain amount of points to spend on weapon skills, with the high BAB ones gettting more than the low BAB ones.

The other thing to incorporate though is the starting "proficiencies" (a.ka. weapon group feats).

Look at Unearthed Arcana and weapon group feats. IMO that will get you closer to what you want.