BAB vs AC? (I know not again)

[Broken Fang]

Just a quick question. I have been away from 3rd ed for about four months and only breifly reading post here.

I plan on starting up a new campaign where magic and magic items are going to be pretty rare. CoC style magis system where spells have to be found, etc.

Since AC's are not going to be skyrocketing with + this and that armor, shields, etc. I need to prevent BAB from ruling the game with the I hit you, I hit you again, and again, and again problem.
What had been tossed around since I was away/not reading everything?

I figure the normal AC is going to be something like chain mail and shield. Knights (and the wealthy) wearing plate and shield. Enchanted armor will be found on heros of the realms (which the PC's won't be for awhile). I need a way to prevent AC from pretty much being useless against the rapid increase in ability to hit as levels increase.

 

[haiiro]

I believe the Wheel of Time RPG includes rules for a scaling defense bonus based on level, as the WoT setting's approach to armor is similar to the one you described. You might want to skim through the core book at your FLGS, as you may be able to just yoink that system in its entirity for your game.

I think AEG's Swashbuckling Adventures and the d20 7th Sea stuff may also include such rules, as both involve lots of unarmored (or lightly armored) melee combat.

 

[Broken Fang]

I was wondering if Defensive Bonus was going to be the way to go. It seems like many are incorporating it into their games. I guess it's the easiest since all you have to do is add a progression and your done.

Thanks

 

[Angcuru]

Well, my group uses a system where we add half of our base reflex save to our AC as a modification to the dodge feat, but in your case I think you should add the whole reflex save, modifiers and all. Just might work out for you.

 

[Kevin O'Reilly]

Use DF, but I'd use armor penality to modify to stop AC getting to high

 

[Andion Isurand]

why not just give everyone the ability to transfer any amount of their available BAB into an AC bonus? (much like Expertise)

Then, the classes with more BAB, would be better at both attacking and defending.

 

[Broken Fang]

I actually like that even better. Should it still require Expertise or not? Have you tried using your suggestion? The simpler the better for my players.

 

[Andion Isurand]

I think it would be OK if everyone had the ability I mentioned, the difference in BAB simply measures thier combat resources.

Everyone should be able to do it, without using expertise.

take expertise and make it provide another benefit... since expertise is invloved with many other prerequisites for other feats and PrCs.

However, the only problem exists with spellcasters, and how to deal with them putting all thier BAB into AC while they are casting a spell not requiring an attack roll in the first place...

...as well as other actions that would not be considered opportunities for Fighting Defensively.

 

[Kraedin]

I'm not sure that allowing translation of BAB into AC is such a good idea. D&D, in general, tends to favor offence over defense -- it is likely that such a system would see players keeping their BAB high enough that they almost always hit their opponents; in other words, not a lot of difference.

If I were modifying the system, I would just give all classes a defense bonus equal to 50-75% of their BAB (depending on how much you want high-level combatants to hit.)

 

[kramis]

more basic problem

Actually, the problem is more fundamental ... you are all trying to find "patches" for a more basic problem. Armor should be damage reduction, and AC should be BAB+dex+random magic. This would solve a lot of the problems you are talking about, but would introduce a lot more complication which is probably why the game designers have never implemented it. The problem is there is a lot of fallout with going with this.

For example, you'd have to start introducing hit locations to give it a better feel, then you might have to give weird penalties/effects for damage to specific areas (though this could probably be avoided), you might also have to give armor hit points and keep track of them to know when it's been hacked to pieces. Area effect attacks are harder to come up with a good system for. And of course you'd have to switch to using Dex for attack bonus with melee weapons instead of Str which would then unbalance the ability scores too much (there've been other threads on this issue).

It's doable, and would feel better in a lot of ways, but it juts adds a lot of complication to the game.